Wesnothian Poetry

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The1exile
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Re: Wesnothian Poetry

Post by The1exile »

New version:
Chant of the Troll Shamans:
I've changed "attempt" to "attack", "Exiled" to "Outcast". The "fiery lava..." paragraph may need an entire rewrite, but I do also like it as it is.
Rubies for passion, rubies for revenge.
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melinath
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Re: Wesnothian Poetry

Post by melinath »

The1exile wrote:
melinath wrote:Some general things to consider:
1. Who wrote/composed this? When did they write/compose it? Where?
2. Is this about a concrete historic event? Said another way: what's the purpose of this piece? (Is it read at weddings? Do they chant it on the way to the battlefield?)
1. Any shaman you like.
2. It's probably a history-come-marching chant. It describes the (possibly completely fictitious canon-wise) exile of the troll shamans, and egotistically prophesies the fall of all trolls without shamans.
2. Okay. Cool!
1. Nonononono. Not my decision. This is an important part of the poem. It puts it in a historical context. That's a decision you should make. Nice thing about the world of Wesnoth: there are holes in its history the size of Europe. If you think that the shamans should have gotten exiled, find a place and time and make a short description. Who exiled them? Why? If you make a convincing argument and people agree with it, there's no reason this couldn't be fit into the history. (...that I know of...) We're doing world building here. Don't be shy.
The1exile wrote:
melinath wrote:2. Rhythm
The rhythm in this poem is very regular. (^_^_) Except in one place. The line "Crush their attempt" (^_ _^) doesn't fit at all. In modern poetry, they'd say this was a good variation; however, since this is meant to be read with drums, it doesn't work.
Hmm. I had no problem trying to read this (as "CRUSH-their-Ah-ttempt...") but as it needs to rhyme it can easily be changed to a suitable replacement. I'll try and post some suggested modifications to the poem later, but feel free to post your own improvement suggestions.
I mean... I physically have no problem reading CRUSH-their-AH-tack (the new version) either, but it's not the natural rhythm of the English language. At least, not in my dialect. If you're purposely using forced rhythms, that's fine, but then it's odd that there's only the one.
The1exile wrote:Grill is a reference to the undermentioned fireball-shooting of the shamans.
I got that. Grill isn't a register problem - it's a problem I have with association. Even knowing that it has to do with fireballs, I still think about grilling burgers, hot dogs, vegetables... in my mind, it's a cooking word, not an attacking word.
One simple solution would be

So we march on
Over hill
Looking for our
Foes to grill

With our fire
Foes we kill
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The1exile
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Re: Wesnothian Poetry

Post by The1exile »

melinath wrote:1. Nonononono. Not my decision. This is an important part of the poem. It puts it in a historical context. That's a decision you should make. Nice thing about the world of Wesnoth: there are holes in its history the size of Europe. If you think that the shamans should have gotten exiled, find a place and time and make a short description. Who exiled them? Why? If you make a convincing argument and people agree with it, there's no reason this couldn't be fit into the history. (...that I know of...) We're doing world building here. Don't be shy.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I feel nervous about writing a piece of definitive history around a unit that (as far as I know) doesn't feature in any mainline campaigns. If they're in the normal code of unit listings, even if not featured in the campaigns, then I'd feel a lot better about writing their tale.
melinath wrote:I mean... I physically have no problem reading CRUSH-their-AH-tack (the new version) either, but it's not the natural rhythm of the English language. At least, not in my dialect. If you're purposely using forced rhythms, that's fine, but then it's odd that there's only the one.
I do see what you mean, and I'll give it more consideration, but for now I'm at a loss as to how to fix the stress properly (other synonyms, e.g. assault don't seem to work either).
melinath wrote:
The1exile wrote:Grill is a reference to the undermentioned fireball-shooting of the shamans.
I got that. Grill isn't a register problem - it's a problem I have with association. Even knowing that it has to do with fireballs, I still think about grilling burgers, hot dogs, vegetables... in my mind, it's a cooking word, not an attacking word.
One simple solution would be

So we march on
Over hill
Looking for our
Foes to grill

With our fire
Foes we kill
Good suggestion! I'll use it in the next draft.
Rubies for passion, rubies for revenge.
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melinath
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Re: Wesnothian Poetry

Post by melinath »

Just putting the text in a historical context will make it better. It may also help you get ideas on how to change/improve what you've got. And if you put the exile of the shamans somewhere really odd, I'm sure someone who knows more than I do will correct you. But that's no reason not to try!
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Turuk
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Re: Wesnothian Poetry

Post by Turuk »

melinath wrote:Hmm. The caricaturing of Americans definitely wasn't intentional, but I see what you mean. I think it may just be a wording thing, though, as this paragraph seems to stand out more than "Make us slave" or "Or will fall". Suggestions to change it welcome.
I just want to comment on this, I would not worry about caricaturing Native Americans. It only causes association with how the Americans emphasized Native Americans sounded when they spoke English, and has little bearing on how fluent they might have been (some were completely fluent, most might have only known the basic rudiments).
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AI
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Re: Wesnothian Poetry

Post by AI »

The1exile wrote:
melinath wrote:1. Nonononono. Not my decision. This is an important part of the poem. It puts it in a historical context. That's a decision you should make. Nice thing about the world of Wesnoth: there are holes in its history the size of Europe. If you think that the shamans should have gotten exiled, find a place and time and make a short description. Who exiled them? Why? If you make a convincing argument and people agree with it, there's no reason this couldn't be fit into the history. (...that I know of...) We're doing world building here. Don't be shy.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I feel nervous about writing a piece of definitive history around a unit that (as far as I know) doesn't feature in any mainline campaigns. If they're in the normal code of unit listings, even if not featured in the campaigns, then I'd feel a lot better about writing their tale.
They're a core unit these days (with art created for that purpose) and are used in UtBS, DiD and LoW.
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The1exile
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Re: Wesnothian Poetry

Post by The1exile »

AI wrote:They're a core unit these days (with art created for that purpose) and are used in UtBS, DiD and LoW.
Great! Canon-compatible it is then.

New (and hopefully final) edition:
Chant of the Troll Shamans:
"Attack" --> "army" and melinath's excellent suggestion incorporated. I think I'll play through LoW fully again to see if I can find a good historical point to commit it to and some inspiration for the elf piece.
Rubies for passion, rubies for revenge.
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