Descriptions

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rat4000
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Descriptions

Post by rat4000 » May 26th, 2009, 1:28 pm

Well, first post, so hello.

The subject is descriptions. Wesnoth has a wonderful universe, not more cliched than some major fantasy series and certainly with the same potential...

...and three-line descriptions of lvl3 units. I don't like that, and I gather that the opinion on this forum concerning stuff that users don't like is "Do it yourself and we'll make it mainline if it's better."

So I'll try and make it better. The drakes are, currently, quite lacking. Let me give you a description and ask you if you think it's worth anything. More may follow shortly if you do not think you can say anything because the material is too little. Critics are, of course, welcome.

Fighter:
These are the swordsman of the drakes and their main infantry. Faster than any other race, and as fleet as a mounted man when traversing difficult terrain, they can strike one day and be gone the next - it is always they who determine the battlefield. Their scimitars, are rivalled in their size only by the huge blades of the orcs; they are easier to use than those because of their good craftsmanship, however, and drakes are better trained than grunts. Coupled with their strength and the natural supplementary weapon of fire breath, this means that there are not many who wish to meet them in close quarters - and those few will soon curse their bravery when their swords slide on the hard scales, barely doing any damage at all.

Their one weakness is their size - they are never hard to hit, and with scales that are of no use against sharp points, they will fall easily to spears and arrows.

Warrior and Blademaster (especially the latter) will probably get longer descriptions.

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Simons Mith
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Re: Descriptions

Post by Simons Mith » May 26th, 2009, 1:35 pm

So, um, how do you determine a battlefield?

3-5 lines of description for each unit would be about right, in my view, but the #1 thing I would like to eliminate is insidious nonsense phrases like 'determine the battlefield' which all-too-easily slip in whenever anyone tries writing these descriptions. I'm not claiming to be immune myself, by the way...
 

rat4000
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Re: Descriptions

Post by rat4000 » May 26th, 2009, 1:43 pm

Determine where the battle would take place. I believe that is the definition of battlefield. I might be wrong, of course.

Also, 3-5 lines of description may be fine, but descriptions don't take much place and are wholly irrelevant to gameplay, so there's no harm with having longer ones :)

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Turuk
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Re: Descriptions

Post by Turuk » May 26th, 2009, 1:50 pm

A number of the sentences could also be rearranged to be much easier to read, and avoid excess punctuation.
rat4000 wrote:Their scimitars, are rivalled in their size only by the huge blades of the orcs; they are easier to use than those because of their good craftsmanship, however, and drakes are better trained than grunts.
Due to their extensive training and superior craftsmanship, the drakes are able to wield massive scimitars that rival the blades of the orcs.
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melinath
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Re: Descriptions

Post by melinath » May 26th, 2009, 1:59 pm

To me, determine the battlefield = decide the outcome of the battle.
Also, the reason for somewhat short descs is (I assume) so that they don't get too much in the way of people looking for unit stats.
Unfortunately, I play wesnoth in German (to help practice the language) so I can't compare the present English text to yours.

A few comments/suggestions:
((blue=a rewrite)) EDIT:: Changed to Turuk's suggestion.
Proofread:

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Turuk
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Re: Descriptions

Post by Turuk » May 26th, 2009, 2:04 pm

Natural weapon of fire breath?
->
Faced with their strength and their natural ability to breathe fire,



Luckily, they are huge targets, and with scales that are of no use against sharp points, they will fall easily to spears and arrows.
->
Luckily, they are huge targets, and the same scales that turn blades are easily pierced by spears and arrows.




Fighter:
These are the swordsman of the drakes and their main infantry. Faster than any other race, and as fleet as a mounted man when traversing difficult terrain, they can strike one moment and be gone the next. Due to their extensive training and superior craftsmanship, the drakes are able to wield massive scimitars that rival the blades of the orcs. Faced with their strength and their natural ability to breathe fire, not many would wish to meet them in close quarters - and those few who dare it will soon curse their bravery when their swords slide on the hard scales, barely doing any damage at all.

Luckily, they are huge targets, and the same scales that turn blades are easily pierced by spears and arrows.
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Re: Descriptions

Post by thespaceinvader » May 26th, 2009, 4:12 pm

Bear in mind that the revised drake sprites almost certainly will NOT be wielding any form of swords - they're going to have wolverine-style wrist or back-of-hand mounted claw-like blades, to take advantage of the fact that they're naturally clawed and will fight better that way by instinct.
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Turuk
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Re: Descriptions

Post by Turuk » May 26th, 2009, 4:19 pm

Due to their extensive training and superior craftsmanship, the drakes are able to wield massive wrist-mounted claws the size of goblins.
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rat4000
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Re: Descriptions

Post by rat4000 » May 26th, 2009, 8:25 pm

TSI, I have no problems with changing the descriptions when the new sprites arrive :wink:

Everyone else, thanks!

Fighter:
These are the swordsman of the drakes and their main infantry. Faster than any other race, and as fleet as a mounted man when traversing difficult terrain, they can strike one moment and be gone the next, which enables them to fight when and where they want. Due to the extensive training andsuperior craftsmanship of their race, these drakes are able to wield massive scimitars that rival the blades of the orcs in size. Of course, their training makes them better warriors than any grunt. Faced with their strength and their natural ability to breathe fire, not many would wish to meet them in close quarters - and those few who dare it will soon curse their bravery when their swords slide on the hard scales, barely doing any damage at all.

Luckily, they are huge targets not hard to hit, and the same scales that turn blades are easily pierced by spears and arrows their easily hurt wings make them good targets for spears and arrows.


It makes more sense to me that drakes have problems with pierce damage because of their wings, not because of some weird scale vulnerability - the clashers, which are the only drakes incapable of fight, are also the only ones with no weakness to pierce. I think this version reads as well as Turuk's, but I'm not a native English speaker and it's ultimately not my call anyway.

First draft for the Warrior comes tomorrow.

Also, to whoever said that descriptions are short makes seeing the stats easier: turning the mouse wheel twice instead of once isn't that much work and besides, the descriptions can be moved under the stats if enough people complain.

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Re: Descriptions

Post by Turuk » May 26th, 2009, 8:34 pm

"Due to the superior craftsmanship of their race" -> Sounds as if they have been genetically engineered.

Also, appending in size makes no sense, as massive implies what the blades are rivaling.

"Of course their training makes them better warriors than any grunt" -> But worse warriors than any steelclad, bowman or skeleton? It seems odd to highlight one faction.
rat4000 wrote:Faster than any other race, and as fleet as a mounted man when traversing difficult terrain, they can strike one moment and be gone the next, which enables them to fight when and where they want.
Your additions to the paragraph seem to take away anything that is implied by the text only to explicitly state what you want the reader to know. Such as:

"...their easily hurt wings make them good targets..."
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Re: Descriptions

Post by rat4000 » May 26th, 2009, 8:43 pm

1: never thought of that. Suppose it can, but I was like :shock: after reading it. "Their" implies, to me, that they make their weapons themselves, which the gladiator description contradicts... :hmm: I'm at a loss, honestly.

2: I removed "massive" when I added "in size". It's a matter of taste, I think.

3: we were talking about blades rivalling those of grunts. Makes sense to me that in the next sentence we continue the comparison with grunts.

The "good targets" thing was supposed to mean "they die to them easily". It failed at that, apparently. Make it "make them vulnerable to", maybe?

On the implication thing, you are wholly correct. That bit which I added to the text in the quote should go.

I don't see where it is implied that it is the wings that give them trouble with arrows, though.

Thanks a bunch for the discussion.

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Turuk
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Re: Descriptions

Post by Turuk » May 26th, 2009, 8:52 pm

rat4000 wrote:I removed "massive" when I added "in size". It's a matter of taste, I think.
Sort of, but it also seems much simpler to explicitly state in size.
rat4000 wrote:we were talking about blades rivalling those of grunts. Makes sense to me that in the next sentence we continue the comparison with grunts.
Right, except that this description will be displayed no matter what enemy the drakes are facing, so when talking about their training you may want to make it generic, as saying they are better trained than an orc means nothing in relevance to the other factions.
rat4000 wrote:The "good targets" thing was supposed to mean "they die to them easily". It failed at that, apparently. Make it "make them vulnerable to", maybe?
I understand that, but it could also probably be reworded as easily hurt is a bit too simplistic.

I was actually not stating that the implication should go, but that some should stay. Younger individuals tend to write in simple sentences that explicitly state what they want the reader to know. Given the nature of the audience, some implication that allows the reader to draw their own inferences and make the connection in their head would be suiting for the older audience.
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Re: Descriptions

Post by rat4000 » May 26th, 2009, 9:36 pm

1: it is a matter of taste whether you want it simple or not. I'm fine with both, honestly; I just (logically) preferred my version.

2: no description is an island. The whole text about the orcish race makes them not-really-trained brutes. Much better trained than that means (those things are always subjective; a disclaimer for future posts: it's all My opinion) being as good as or better than a spearman (because these get basic training, according to their description, which is only marginally better than no training at all) and as good as an elf (they don't get much training either, but are naturals at everything). You can make that kind of a point for all races, I think.

I'm just stating my opinion here: the version without that sentence isn't all that much worse.

3: I'm a young individual myself, so that's understandable. You're probably closer to the target age than me, so I guess you're right on that one.

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Re: Descriptions

Post by Thrawn » May 26th, 2009, 9:54 pm

Fighter:
These are the swordsman of the drakes and their main infantry. The swiftest fighters of all races, and able to transverse even the most difficult terrain with ease, they can strike one moment and be gone the next. Due to their extensive training, these drakes are able to wield massive scimitars that rival the blades of the orcs. When faced with their strength and natural ability to breathe fire, only the brave and foolish would wish to meet them in close quarters - and those few who dare it will soon curse their bravery when their swords slide on the hard scales, barely scratching the surface.

Luckily, they are huge targets, and the same hide that turn blades fare less well against the sting of arrows and other weapons able to pierce their natural armor.
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this goes for they're/their/there as well

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Re: Descriptions

Post by thespaceinvader » May 26th, 2009, 9:56 pm

Again.

No swords.
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