DiD S12 Easter Egg Poll

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Which easter egg do you like?

Poll ended at February 28th, 2019, 7:59 pm

Zephrin's journal
0
No votes
Coat of arms (orcish)
1
13%
Coat of arms (human)
0
No votes
Lord Karres' library
0
No votes
none of the above / other (please post a reply)
1
13%
(NEW) The_Gnat's combination idea
6
75%
 
Total votes: 8

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josteph
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DiD S12 Easter Egg Poll

Post by josteph » February 7th, 2019, 7:59 pm

(This thread contains spoilers for the last scenario of DiD.)

nemaara is currently revising DiD (her work will soon be on the add-on server for beta testing). In the last scenario of DiD, "Endless Night", Mal Keshar (now a lich) can win in one of two ways: either by letting the Foolish Hero kill him on the third or later repetition of the scenario, or by letting the Foolish Hero steal the book that Mal and Darken Volk stole from Lord Karres in "A Small Favor" and "Alone at Last".

We've considered adding an easter egg and couldn't agree how to do it. Our drafts are in the spoilers; tell us what you like or suggest an even better one!
  • Zephrin's journal.
    Spoiler:
  • Coat of arms (orcish version).
    Spoiler:
  • Coat of arms (human version).
    Spoiler:
  • Lord Karres' library.
    Spoiler:
  • The_Gnat's combination idea.
edit: Fixed coat of arms (orcish).

edit Feb 16 Added The_Gnat's option.

BTIsaac
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Re: DiD S12 Easter Egg Poll

Post by BTIsaac » February 8th, 2019, 9:37 am

First of all, I do not like the first option. It makes no sense, it's melodramatic, it's completely out of character for Mal Keshar, the little info we have on Zephrin doesn't make him the kind of person anyone would have this conversation with, there's no reason for Malin to get into that sort of conversation, and to top it all off, it comes out of left field and serves no real purpose, as this is just not the campaign where a discussion like this can be shoehorned into, and the punchline is drawn out, contrived and excessively verbose.

The fourth option feels a bit pointless. So, I'm guessing option 2 or 3 are better. I think the option with the orcs has potential to be funnier though.

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WhiteWolf
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Re: DiD S12 Easter Egg Poll

Post by WhiteWolf » February 11th, 2019, 5:22 pm

I voted Lord Karres's library for the following reason: easter eggs generally require a bit of an extra effort from the player to unlock or discover them. That's why they are hidden :D If it triggers by the correct last breath event no matter what, it's not that special. Having to pick up an item is still not much of an extra requirement, but it's something, so I'd go with this option.
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Re: DiD S12 Easter Egg Poll

Post by SigurdFireDragon » February 15th, 2019, 10:06 pm

I don't care for / don't understand why all the:
Spoiler:
So I chose the 'none of the above' option.

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Re: DiD S12 Easter Egg Poll

Post by The_Gnat » February 15th, 2019, 11:18 pm

josteph wrote:
February 7th, 2019, 7:59 pm
In the last scenario of DiD, "Endless Night", Mal Keshar (now a lich) can win in one of two ways: either by letting the Foolish Hero kill him on the third or later repetition of the scenario, or by letting the Foolish Hero steal the book that Mal and Darken Volk stole from Lord Karres in "A Small Favor" and "Alone at Last".
First of all I would like to say: thank you for finally making a way to win this scenario! (I had to hack it previously to get the laurel ;) )
  • I think that it is important for the way to win to be hard and not just easily achieved by everyone who plays. As whitewolf said:
    I voted Lord Karres's library for the following reason: easter eggs generally require a bit of an extra effort from the player to unlock or discover them. That's why they are hidden :D If it triggers by the correct last breath event no matter what, it's not that special
    So I would vote for Karres's Library. The point (IMO) of DiD is that it is a no-win situation for the lich Malin despite his seemingly successful immortality. Inevitably all will die it is just a matter of time. However, I did not vote for option 4 because Karres's library doesn't strike me as an actual win situation. As SigurdFireDragon says I don't understand how "No orcs were harmed in the making of these accounts" results in victory for you?
  • I didn't vote for option 1 because I agree with BTIsaac that option 1 draws out the punch line too long. It is a bit harder to understand and not entirely relevant. But I don't think it is not as bad as BTIsaac makes it seem, I personally think it does have the advantage that the main character Malin gets some final lines. It makes it actually seem like a victory, as he philosophizes about the world and concludes his story is merely fictional. It reminds me of shakespeare 'a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing' and I think this is a great allusion and fun idea to have at the end of this very thought provoking campaign. :)
  • I also didn't vote for option 2 or 3 because I don't understand. It just doesn't make much sense what is happening or why you win.
And so I voted 'None of the above' and would propose this instead a combination of all 4: :D

1. Firstly in order to win you must have retrieved the Karres's library book:

Code: Select all

    # IN SC9 WHEN YOU STEP ON BOOK
    [event]
        name=moveto
        [filter]
            x,y=7,9
            id=Malin Keshar
        [/filter]
        [message]
            speaker=Malin Keshar
            # po: "borrow" meaning "steal".
            message= _ "<i>An Anthropology of the Orcs of the Great Continent.</i> There may be something in here that will help me defeat the foul creatures; I shall borrow this book."
        [/message]
        {VARIABLE has_anthropology_of_orcs yes}
        [remove_item]
2. Secondly I would still require the player to win three games against the heroes before he can have victory, but I would prompt him (so he keeps playing long enough to have a chance to win)

Code: Select all

               
                # WHEN YOU DEFEAT THE FOOLISH HERO
                # Easter egg (continued from S9)
                [if]
                   # IF YOU HAVE THE BOOK
                    {VARIABLE_CONDITIONAL has_anthropology_of_orcs boolean_equals yes}
                  # BUT YOU HAVEN'T WON 3 TIMES YET
                    [and]
                       [variable]
                            name=win_count
                            not_equals=3
                       [/variable]
                    [/and]
                    [then]
                         # HINT TO THE PLAYER THAT THEY CAN STILL WIN
                         # note: if we want we can make a new hint for each victory
                         [message]
                               speaker=narrator
                               message="Malin gloated over the fallen bodies of the pathetic fools who tried to dethrone him. Yet there was a lasting vengeance and anticipation within him... he felt inside as if he was yearning for something that eluded his grasp. In time he might discover what it was..."
                         [/message]
                         
                         # INCREMENT THE WIN COUNTER
                         {VARIABLE_OP win_count add 1}
                    [/then]
                [/if]
3. Lastly on death of Malin, after 3+ wins we have the victory message

Code: Select all

               
                # WHEN YOU ARE KILLED BY FOOLISH HERO
                # Easter egg (continued from S9)
                [if]
                   # IF YOU HAVE THE BOOK
                    {VARIABLE_CONDITIONAL has_anthropology_of_orcs boolean_equals yes}
                  # AND YOU HAVE WON 3+ TIMES
                    [and]
                       [variable]
                            name=win_count
                            greater_than_equal_to=3
                       [/variable]
                    [/and]
                    [then]
                          # DISPLAY WIN MESSAGE
                          # this is the final dialog
                          
                                [message]
                                    role=speakinghero
                                    message= _ "Good work men! We have conquered that evil scum lich!"
                                [/message]

                                [message]
                                    speaker=narrator
                                    message= _ "The Foolish Hero had indeed conquered the lich, yet none saw a small book lying upon the ground where the lich fell and no one noticed the curious inscriptions on the tome’s back cover, the lich's final words: "
                                [/message]
                                
                                 [message]
                                    speaker=narrator
                                    image=items/book2.png
                                    message= _ "<i>“Today, in a fit of madness, I had a terrible, terrible thought. It came from that stupid memory again, from that time at the Academy when Zephrin. Sitting here alone in this cavern of darkness I could almost hear his hoarse voice mutter ‘Fun story, Malin, but you really should put a disclaimer. You know, to make sure everyone understands no orcs were harmed in the making of this, hahaha’ And I could hear him cackling, right, like my whole life was some sort of work of fiction.</i> "
                                [/message]
                                                  
                                [message]
                                    speaker=narrator
                                    message= _ "The Foolish Hero died some years after, as did the rest of his generation. Over the ages empires rose and fell, and rose again... but all the while, under the mountain of stone, still rests Malin's book and still his words engraved by magic lie."
                                [/message]
                                                                                         
                          [endlevel]
                              result=victory
                              next_scenario="" # COMPLETE THE CAMPAIGN
                          [/endlevel]
                    [/then]
                [/if]
Note this code is untested so there are probably some bugs, also if you think it is too hard it could be changed to HAVE BOOK and 1 WIN or something easier. Any thoughts of ideas are welcome!

I am happy for anyone to suggest any alternative variant of my idea also. Basically my main premise is just that the win should A) require an easter egg and B) seem like an actual victory (in this case through malin's final words, and the eternal nature of them)

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josteph
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Re: DiD S12 Easter Egg Poll

Post by josteph » February 16th, 2019, 1:43 pm

SigurdFireDragon wrote:
February 15th, 2019, 10:06 pm
I don't care for / don't understand why all the:
Spoiler:
So I chose the 'none of the above' option.
The original idea was for the last sentence (of dialog, narration, or story screens) in the campaign to be something to the effect of "No orcs were harmed in the making of this campaign", for humor, especially given the campaign revolves around Malin's hatred for orcs. Then the four ideas in the OP are just different implementations of this original idea. As I said in the OP, other ideas for easter egg are welcome too :)
The_Gnat wrote:
February 15th, 2019, 11:18 pm
First of all I would like to say: thank you for finally making a way to win this scenario! (I had to hack it previously to get the laurel ;) )
That's already released, actually. It was always possible to get the laurel by letting Malin die on the second or subsequent iteration of the scenario; nowadays it's also possible to win by letting the Foolish Hero steal the book. nemaara's PRs doesn't change the victory conditions. The four proposals in the OP (Zephrin, coat of arms, and Lord Karres) don't change the victory conditions either; they just add some extra dialog to this victory condition or that.
The_Gnat wrote:
February 15th, 2019, 11:18 pm
  • And so I voted 'None of the above' and would propose this instead a combination of all 4: :D
Okay, I'll add this option to the poll, if I can. For the record, the current votes are
Current tally:

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josteph
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Re: DiD S12 Easter Egg Poll

Post by josteph » February 16th, 2019, 1:46 pm

Double posting for visibility. Okay, I added The_Gnat's option to the poll, but that reset the vote counts on all the options. Sorry, I didn't know that would happen. My previous post has the tallies from before the change.

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Re: DiD S12 Easter Egg Poll

Post by The_Gnat » February 16th, 2019, 7:18 pm

josteph wrote:
February 16th, 2019, 1:46 pm
Double posting for visibility. Okay, I added The_Gnat's option to the poll.
Thank you!

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josteph
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Re: DiD S12 Easter Egg Poll

Post by josteph » February 17th, 2019, 4:29 pm

You're welcome. The_Gnat, in your version Zephrin's line sounded somewhat 21st century to me, wesnoth-era dialog doesn't usually use "hahaha" and "right" that way, and some words were missing after Zephrin's name.
Spoiler:
How about the following tweak to your version?

Code: Select all

                                    message= _ "<i>“Today, in a fit of madness, I had a terrible, terrible thought. It came from that stupid memory again, from that time at the Academy when I told my dormmates about Parthyn. Sitting here alone in this cavern of darkness I could almost hear Zephrin's hoarse voice mutter ‘Fun story, Malin, but you really should put a disclaimer. You know, to make sure everyone understands no orcs were harmed in the making of your tale.’ And I could hear him cackling, like my whole life was some sort of work of fiction.</i> "

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Re: DiD S12 Easter Egg Poll

Post by The_Gnat » February 18th, 2019, 1:09 am

:) good idea josteph. I just drew the dialogue up quickly and I do agree that sounds better. If you have any other suggestions let me know!

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Re: DiD S12 Easter Egg Poll

Post by The_Gnat » March 6th, 2019, 11:18 pm

So has the DiD easter egg been implemented? Does anyone know the progress on this?

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Re: DiD S12 Easter Egg Poll

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » March 7th, 2019, 5:10 am

I just want to point out that The_Gnat's idea, while not bad overall, has a major flaw - requiring the book in order to win at all. First of all, that condition contradicts the fact that this is an easter egg. An easter egg cannot be required to win. Secondly, the condition creates the possibility that after a certain point your campaign could reach a state after which it is impossible to win (if you fail to retrieve the book).

Anyway, it sounds like something similar to The_Gnat's idea has been implemented, so this is now resolved.
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Re: DiD S12 Easter Egg Poll

Post by The_Gnat » March 7th, 2019, 6:12 am

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
March 7th, 2019, 5:10 am
I just want to point out that The_Gnat's idea, while not bad overall, has a major flaw - requiring the book in order to win at all. First of all, that condition contradicts the fact that this is an easter egg. An easter egg cannot be required to win. Secondly, the condition creates the possibility that after a certain point your campaign could reach a state after which it is impossible to win (if you fail to retrieve the book).

Anyway, it sounds like something similar to The_Gnat's idea has been implemented, so this is now resolved.
Yes. :)

For anyone wondering what progress has been made it looks like in the end the book +5 wins of the scenario leads to the easter egg that I suggested.

The options for winning however are not restricted by having the book which I believe is better overall. :)

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