Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Postby Tad_Carlucci » January 20th, 2018, 3:58 pm

What a silly discussion!

It doesn't really matter if they've been taming Lions for centuries, working from tamed parents, selecting for fierceness in battle as well as following orders, which could be considered domesticated Lions? Or if they've only recently started taming Hydra and are having more luck getting those with only two heads to only kill enemies while they're, apparently, having a bit of trouble convincing the three-headed variety to cease stopping in the midst of battle for a tamer-snack?

"Should we call them tamers or something else?" Who cares? It's as good a term as any. We're looking for a term which covers the general class. "Sir, scouts report a group of tamers in the woods!" should be good enough. Who cares if they're Bear Riders, Wolf Riders, Tiger Riders, Panther Riders, Lion Riders, or it's a two- or a three-headed Hydra? It's still going to scare the hell out of your Irregulars you're using to screen that flank. (Well, if it's just a group of Three-headed Hydra Riders, it might be fun to give them a few pitch-fork bearing peasants just to watch _their_ flank collapse when the remaining Riders flee their mounts. But, of course, I would not say that because I have too much respect for my field hands and pig farmers.)
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Postby Airatgaljamov » January 20th, 2018, 4:56 pm

Well, I thought that discussion makes sense if we talk about broader Dunefolk lore.

I mean, what is their way of life?

Do they have agriculture, stable settlements, cities?

If cattle, horse are available to domesticate then it is possible to create efficient farms using ploughing technology. That will result in population grow, big cities, lots of mind unoccupied with farming available to invent and create. Dunefolk will have access on plant resources - cotton, silk, linen, paper, pigments or something fictional, like super-healing herbs, super-poisonous plants, burning and flammable oils from plants.

If they only have sheep-like creatures to domesticate then they could be semi-nomadic culture with settlements and huge territories devoted for herding enormous herds of sheep. more focused on using resources from animal - wool, leather, bones, horns etc.

If nothing is available for domestication, and only Hydras and Wyvern roam the land, Dunefolk will be left only with a hunting strategy. They will be pure nomads, constantly traveling to not yet depleted places. They will tame perilous beasts, use them in battles, but never domesticate them as they are too dangerous. Dunefolk will use leather, claws craft shields from unusually strong scales etc.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Postby Eagle_11 » January 20th, 2018, 5:35 pm

Well, in my imagination the south is an whole realm of their own, equalling if not surpassing the boundaries of wesnoth in landmass. To make up for that, an sizeable chunk of this land is rather dry and scarce of resources.
Their realm can be roughly divided into 4 regions, those being the coastal region, the steppe peninsula to the west, the desert frontier region to the north, and the province that is encroaching upon the jungle that lies to its east in its course of natural expansion.
The fertile grasslands along the southern ocean coast is where the core of their realm lies in, thats where most of the agriculture happens as the many rivers flowing made the ground fertile for most crops. There are atleast 3 large port cities along the southern coast. They most definitely know shipbuilding.
In the desert frontier region can probably exist walled in cities built around oases and important resource sites. Wyverns, Sandworms, Rocs, Cyclops, Giant Scorps would inhabit the desert, the occasional orcish and undead menace spilling from the north being other threats. There are nomadic living peoples among them too as those walled in cities can only support so much people.
They would most definitely know to handle the horse and camel.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » January 20th, 2018, 6:44 pm

Airatgaljamov wrote:If cattle, horse are available to domesticate then it is possible to create efficient farms using ploughing technology. That will result in population grow, big cities, lots of mind unoccupied with farming available to invent and create. Dunefolk will have access on plant resources - cotton, silk, linen, paper, pigments or something fictional, like super-healing herbs, super-poisonous plants, burning and flammable oils from plants.

If they only have sheep-like creatures to domesticate then they could be semi-nomadic culture with settlements and huge territories devoted for herding enormous herds of sheep. more focused on using resources from animal - wool, leather, bones, horns etc.
Clearly horses are available, but cows I doubt. Note though that, as a desert people, the amount of land available for cultivation will be quite limited, so it wouldn't really be in their best interests to devote much of it to raising animals. And raising animals in a nomadic manner isn't very workable either, because there's not much for the animals to eat out in the desert.

I figure they get their flammable oils by digging or something - there's oil under the sands, much like in the Arabian peninsula. Besides that, I think they'd have more plant resources then animal resources.

Eagle_11 wrote:Well, in my imagination the south is an whole realm of their own, equalling if not surpassing the boundaries of wesnoth in landmass. To make up for that, an sizeable chunk of this land is rather dry and scarce of resources.
Their realm can be roughly divided into 4 regions, those being the coastal region, the steppe peninsula to the west, the desert frontier region to the north, and the province that is encroaching upon the jungle that lies to its east in its course of natural expansion.
The fertile grasslands along the southern ocean coast is where the core of their realm lies in, thats where most of the agriculture happens as the many rivers flowing made the ground fertile for most crops. There are atleast 3 large port cities along the southern coast. They most definitely know shipbuilding.
Eh, why must the desert be a mere frontier? Egypt and Sumer were both essentially built in a desert area, and I think it would be more interesting if the dunefolk were more like that, rather than mainly living south of the desert. Also, if they know ship-building, why hasn't there been more contact with Wesnoth?

Eagle_11 wrote:In the desert frontier region can probably exist walled in cities built around oases and important resource sites. Wyverns, Sandworms, Rocs, Cyclops, Giant Scorps would inhabit the desert, the occasional orcish and undead menace spilling from the north being other threats. There are nomadic living peoples among them too as those walled in cities can only support so much people.
They would most definitely know to handle the horse and camel.
...I have no idea where you got cyclops from, as those aren't associated with deserts in the slightest. Also, I think it's quite unlikely the orcs would venture this far south; drakes are probably a more likely threat to the north (probably northeast, to be more specific). And note that camels also count as inhabiting the desert (there would be wild camels too). (By the way, if we're giving them camels, are they two-humped camels or one-humped dromedaries?)
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Postby Eagle_11 » January 20th, 2018, 7:21 pm

Well, since my southern orcs got loosely based on EomA barbarians, and that those had an cyclops unitline which i didnt want to throw away had decided to let those inhabit the stonetalon mountains.
The southern orcs would come into being after Ashievere's reign, those orcish mercenaries that couldnt retreat north retreated southwards instead.
the lore for them i had written:
Spoiler:

As for the camel, Most sprites already drawn seem to be using the single hump version of camel, however i wouldnt exclude the other type, there can even be an triple humped version.

About the seafaring, simple, they had an enmity with the elves inhabiting the southwoods. The treaty that secured peace with them dictated no ship be sailing northwards using the shorewater. It would pass an considerable time some explorer from wesnoth came crossing the desert southwards, and stumbled upon them total randomly by the strange whims of fate.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Postby Airatgaljamov » January 20th, 2018, 7:36 pm

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:Clearly horses are available, but cows I doubt. Note though that, as a desert people, the amount of land available for cultivation will be quite limited, so it wouldn't really be in their best interests to devote much of it to raising animals. And raising animals in a nomadic manner isn't very workable either, because there's not much for the animals to eat out in the desert.


In Ancient Egypt cattle were very important, economy was based on them as a working force and some resource source. And they were numerous. Despite the fact that Egyptians had only limited land where they can grow crops. So benefits of having a workforce animal outweighs the limited farming land, I guess that is due to increased efficiency and irrigation.

Without working animals farmers of Dunefolk would have bad time with growing food on limited fertile land near rivers. But if they have horses then it should be OK.

Nomadic cultures live mostly by herding animals, that the only way for them to survive. Food in the desert can be found near oases. Nomads usually travel from one pastoral place to another, making temporary settlements there.

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:I figure they get their flammable oils by digging or something - there's oil under the sands, much like in the Arabian peninsula. Besides that, I think they'd have more plant resources then animal resources.


Flammable oil doesn’t have to be limited to one source. Differences in properties can be insignificant some oils may come from natural petroleum sources, other from some unusual plants, some Dunefolsk may even learn to use mixes of them.

For desert civilizations both animal-centric and plant-centric cultures make sense. Animal-centric for nomadic people, who don't have permanent settlements and don't grow food, animals for them are the main source of food and resources. Plant-centric for people settled in cities near rivers, who occupied with irrigation, farming using animals mostly as a work force.
That can be a basement for Lawful/Liminal division of Dunefolk units. Lawfuls are from cities, Liminal are nomads. I believe someone already thought about that.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Postby Kasdel » January 20th, 2018, 8:17 pm

Can-ned_Food wrote:Yeah, i guess yours is more akin to the style of the others than mine. One request: Would it be possible for you, or anyone I guess, to squeeze that bit about the veins of the never–scathed warriors being reputed to flow with sand rather than blood? :D
Of course, the healers and medicineers would know better, but let's say that they have a code of confidentiality — and an interest to protect the mythos of their warriors.

Definitely, I can fit the sand/blood part. I thought it was a pretty good idea, by the way. :)
Not exactly literally, of course, just a myth, but one that would contribute to the feeling of fear and mystery that Wesnothians feel about the Dunefolk. I'd say it's more of an elf/Wesnoth/drake story than one spread among their champions, though.

Pentarctagon wrote:Perhaps the bottom left sprite from here?

Yes. Wyvern is more appropriate, though. That was what I was supposed to have written...

Also, about the monsters, maybe those camel-like creatures that doofus made for UtBS could be the descendants of a species of creatures the Dunefolk use? The Fall destroyed most of Wesnoth, including the Dunefolk cities, but those creatures survived in the harsh desert climate on their own, migrated north and were later used by the Quenoth elves... I think that would be a nice foreshadowing.

So, these are ideas of creatures I think they could tame (or they could exist in their lands, untamed):

- Camel-like beasts (see above, also, maybe based of the Shadhavar?)
- Horses
- Wyverns (very young dragons, a different breed of dragons that stay small their entire life or weaker, mutated/different dragons from the Old Continent)
- Serpents (maybe the healers could use their poison as medicine (or as a weapon)?)
- Rhinoceros/elephants (based on the Karkadann)
- Mutated humans (based on the Nasnas, maybe due to the weird stuff that happened in the Old Continent, due to scientific experiments, failed magic experiments or Jinn magic)
- Jinn (for further research)
- This one doesn't exist in their lands, but maybe, in their journey to the Old Continent, a massive fish or whale could have helped them (this is compatible with the magic bridge and other explanations) and became immortalized in a legend, based on Bahamut (a different name would be used).

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:I think you should suggest that the jinn are only an occasional sight, as well. "...and occasionally the mystical, cryptic Jinn, magical beings who..."

Will do.

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
Kasdel wrote:About the roc, I did a bit of research and found that rukk is a romanization for the Arabic form, while rokh or rukh would be a romanization for the Persian form. I also whipped up a description for it, just in case.
Indeed, but we don't necessarily need to restrict ourselves to Arabic sources exclusively. Personally, I like the spelling "rukh" better than "rukk". The unit description seems serviceable enough.

As for your dunefolk description, my impression of them was that they were a settled people, not nomads. They formed settlements around the oases and/or rivers in the desert. Though there could be both settled and nomadic elements to them, I suppose; the liminal ones might be the nomads while the lawful ones are the city-dwellers. (Liminal as nomads is because deserts have extreme temperatures; they'll be blazing hot during the day, then - relatively speaking - freezing cold during the night. Note that "freezing cold" here doesn't actually mean below freezing, most of the time.) If we went that route, there'd be some cultural differences between the two, which might make the faction more interesting.

Also, herbal medicine in the world of Wesnoth is probably never a false promise of a miraculous cure-all. Even the Wesnoth humans probably have some knowledge of it, and the elves probably have quite an extensive knowledge of herbal medicine too. However both the Wesnoth humans and the elves probably pass down knowledge of the properties of herbs through word of mouth, maybe recording some of them; the dunefolk, on the other hand, try new things and discover new uses for herbs.

Interesting that you suggest there has been sporadic yet unrecorded contact between the dunefolk and the races to the north of them. I think any significant (and official) negotiation would have been recorded though, so such contact would probably need to involve commoners in the case of Wesnoth; that said, I think it's quite unlikely that the dunefolk had any contact with Wesnoth. More likely they've only had contact with the elves, which form a buffer between them and Wesnoth; it could also explain why their presence is (at least mostly) unknown to Wesnoth, as the elves see no reason to share that information (even if they might share items that they obtained from the dunefolk through trade).


Yeah, Rukh is probably better.
I got a bit carried away, I'd previously thought of them as having cities/kingdoms/khalifates but I guess it sounded more poetic to say they were nomads... that's going to be changed, thanks.
The nomads could be scouts, who would gather herbs, bring animals, ambush enemies, etc., and most warriors, who would need to be adapted to extreme temperatures. They don't necessarily need to be two different groups, but that can be done as well.
About the herbal medicine, that's another thing that sounded more poetic than it actually made sense.

That bit about the elves is pretty interesting, hadn't thought of it. That definitely makes the dynamics of the faction and its interactions more, well, dynamic. They could still communicate with Wesnoth - just the Crown, not the commoners - to either try and make peace with them, threaten them, let them know that they came from the Old Continent and wish to settle in the Great Continent, ask for help in dealing with the drakes or the undead, get mad at them for using magic, warn them of the drakes' danger (there's a gold mine of opportunities to solve both the issue with the Dunefolk not having lore and the Drakes, too.)

By secret, unrecorded contact I meant, for instance, an emmissary of the Dunefolk being sent to speak with the King of Wesnoth about these things I wrote above. That doesn't have to involve the commoners.

Well, updated description below. Thanks for the feedback and ideas!

The origins of the Dunefolk are a well-kept secret, as well as the exact location of their bustling cities, hidden amongst the dunes on deep southern territory. But one thing is widely-known across the Great Continent - the Dunefolk are composed of cultured scholars, talented healers, and ferocious warriors who master both steel and fire to tear their enemies apart in combat. It is said that sand - not blood - courses through their champions' veins. Those who are wounded in battle have "lost their sand" in the defeat, and when they exact vengeance, they are repaying the sands for their vanquished pride.

The Dunefolk's expertise in living in the desert is as masterful as the scientific techniques they have perfected over the years. In their hands, herbal medicine is an incredibly efficient way to keep fighters alive between the rounds of battle they must face over the course of their harsh, blood-forged lives.

The Dunefolk have not been involved in brutal wars with the people of Wesnoth, even though there have been organized attempts on their part to attack the northern borders. Talks with these southern people have mostly remained in the unwritten pages of history, as if the very mention of their existence would strike fear in the hearts of the general populace, but it is rumored that some kings of Wesnoth retained the knowledge of their motives and ambitions through occasional diplomatic attempts, and the elves, their closest neighbors, through trade partnerships, battles and alliances.

While seemingly bearing distaste against said elves, mages and the horrifying undead, the Dunefolk employ other, lesser-known races of creatures in their arsenal, while battling the hardships of the desert and the ferocious drakes, their nearest and most aggressive enemies, in unending, bloody strife.
Dunefolk society rarely encourages the use of magic amongst its people, shunning those who dedicate their lives to practicing it instead of merely studying it. However, some would say their scientific techniques and the effective methods of training nearly untamable creatures are as close as possible to the magical arts. Alongside the human warriors and those who handle flame as a weapon, their ranks include beasts such as Wyverns, captained by their Dunefolk tamers, riderless Rukhs, and occasionally, the cryptic Jinn, mystical beings who do not seem to be allies, yet are not enemies either.

The Dunefolk maintain complex relations with these creatures, aware of their immense power and fickle behavior, but ultimately, juggle the risks and rewards wisely enough - Wesnoth travellers who visited Dunefolk lands and lived to tell the tale speak of enormous, fearsome armies that would pose a significant risk to all those foolish enough to stand in their way.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Postby Eagle_11 » January 20th, 2018, 9:04 pm

That seems nice to me.
Hmm, maybe instead Dunefolk lands we can invent like 'the southern realms'.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Postby Celtic_Minstrel » January 21st, 2018, 1:19 am

Can't say I like any of Eagle_11's ideas in that latest post (not counting the one just above this one).

Anyway...

Airatgaljamov wrote:In Ancient Egypt cattle were very important, economy was based on them as a working force and some resource source. And they were numerous. Despite the fact that Egyptians had only limited land where they can grow crops. So benefits of having a workforce animal outweighs the limited farming land, I guess that is due to increased efficiency and irrigation.

Without working animals farmers of Dunefolk would have bad time with growing food on limited fertile land near rivers. But if they have horses then it should be OK.
I'd think having multiple types of large livestock would be a problem though, so they should probably just have horses.

Airatgaljamov wrote:Flammable oil doesn’t have to be limited to one source. Differences in properties can be insignificant some oils may come from natural petroleum sources, other from some unusual plants, some Dunefolsk may even learn to use mixes of them.
Fair enough. There's many types of oils anyway, so it'd be weird if they relied exclusively on one for their pyrotechnics.

Airatgaljamov wrote:That can be a basement for Lawful/Liminal division of Dunefolk units. Lawfuls are from cities, Liminal are nomads. I believe someone already thought about that.
Yes, uh. That was me. :P

Kasdel wrote:- Camel-like beasts (see above, also, maybe based of the Shadhavar?)
- Horses
- Wyverns (very young dragons, a different breed of dragons that stay small their entire life or weaker, mutated/different dragons from the Old Continent)
- Serpents (maybe the healers could use their poison as medicine (or as a weapon)?)
- Rhinoceros/elephants (based on the Karkadann)
- Mutated humans (based on the Nasnas, maybe due to the weird stuff that happened in the Old Continent, due to scientific experiments, failed magic experiments or Jinn magic)
- Jinn (for further research)
- This one doesn't exist in their lands, but maybe, in their journey to the Old Continent, a massive fish or whale could have helped them (this is compatible with the magic bridge and other explanations) and became immortalized in a legend, based on Bahamut (a different name would be used).
Oh, I see you've hunted down some mythological creatures. I think the rhino-like isn't a bad idea, and snakes definitely seem like something you could find in a desert. I also imagine there are giant scorpions (which you didn't mention). Also you didn't mention rocs / rukhs. I don't particularly like the nasnas-based idea though.

Wyverns would probably be at best distant relatives of the drakes and dragons. Typically the term "wyvern" is used for a draconic creature with two legs and two wings (compared to the standard fantasy dragon with four legs and two wings), though maybe the sprite doesn't actually support this view. In any case, if there are wyverns, I don't think they should have any close relation to the other draconic races. To use an analogy, if drakes correspond to humans, wyverns might correspond to monkeys.

Bringing Bahamut into their mythology also sounds interesting, though I'm not sure how well that would work. (There's also no need to change the name, just for the record.)

Kasdel wrote:That bit about the elves is pretty interesting, hadn't thought of it. That definitely makes the dynamics of the faction and its interactions more, well, dynamic. They could still communicate with Wesnoth - just the Crown, not the commoners - to either try and make peace with them, threaten them, let them know that they came from the Old Continent and wish to settle in the Great Continent, ask for help in dealing with the drakes or the undead, get mad at them for using magic, warn them of the drakes' danger (there's a gold mine of opportunities to solve both the issue with the Dunefolk not having lore and the Drakes, too.)

By secret, unrecorded contact I meant, for instance, an emmissary of the Dunefolk being sent to speak with the King of Wesnoth about these things I wrote above. That doesn't have to involve the commoners.
I just think it would be weird for any direct contact between the king and the dunefolk to go unrecorded. Furthermore, keeping such contact a secret would be difficult (though admittedly not impossible) - if dunefolk visit Weldyn, they're going to stand out like a sore thumb.

Kasdel wrote:The origins of the Dunefolk are a well-kept secret, as well as the exact location of their bustling cities, hidden amongst the dunes on deep southern territory. But one thing is widely-known across the Great Continent - the Dunefolk are composed of cultured scholars, talented healers, and ferocious warriors who master both steel and fire to tear their enemies apart in combat. It is said that sand - not blood - courses through their champions' veins. Those who are wounded in battle have "lost their sand" in the defeat, and when they exact vengeance, they are repaying the sands for their vanquished pride.

The Dunefolk's expertise in living in the desert is as masterful as the scientific techniques they have perfected over the years. In their hands, herbal medicine is an incredibly efficient way to keep fighters alive between the rounds of battle they must face over the course of their harsh, blood-forged lives.

The Dunefolk have not been involved in brutal wars with the people of Wesnoth, even though there have been organized attempts on their part to attack the northern borders. Talks with these southern people have mostly remained in the unwritten pages of history, as if the very mention of their existence would strike fear in the hearts of the general populace, but it is rumored that some kings of Wesnoth retained the knowledge of their motives and ambitions through occasional diplomatic attempts, and the elves, their closest neighbors, through trade partnerships, battles and alliances.

While seemingly bearing distaste against said elves, mages and the horrifying undead, the Dunefolk employ other, lesser-known races of creatures in their arsenal, while battling the hardships of the desert and the ferocious drakes, their nearest and most aggressive enemies, in unending, bloody strife.
Dunefolk society rarely encourages the use of magic amongst its people, shunning those who dedicate their lives to practicing it instead of merely studying it. However, some would say their scientific techniques and the effective methods of training nearly untamable creatures are as close as possible to the magical arts. Alongside the human warriors and those who handle flame as a weapon, their ranks include beasts such as Wyverns, captained by their Dunefolk tamers, riderless Rukhs, and occasionally, the cryptic Jinn, mystical beings who do not seem to be allies, yet are not enemies either.

The Dunefolk maintain complex relations with these creatures, aware of their immense power and fickle behavior, but ultimately, juggle the risks and rewards wisely enough - Wesnoth travellers who visited Dunefolk lands and lived to tell the tale speak of enormous, fearsome armies that would pose a significant risk to all those foolish enough to stand in their way.
I have no significant problems with this description that haven't been mentioned earlier in the post.
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Dunefolk domesticating horses or cattle?

Postby Can-ned_Food » January 21st, 2018, 4:07 pm

Bleh, yet one more comment from me — but I think bovine versus equine beasts of burden has something to do with the digestive procedures of the ruminants. Cattle would be better at extracting nutrition and such from limited vegetable foods than would horses which have only a large colon and not multiple stomachs.

That is, of course, if they are limited. Maybe they have only few horses among the elites and nobles, and use them entirely for martial or recreational activities.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Postby Kasdel » January 21st, 2018, 6:23 pm

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:Oh, I see you've hunted down some mythological creatures. I think the rhino-like isn't a bad idea, and snakes definitely seem like something you could find in a desert. I also imagine there are giant scorpions (which you didn't mention). Also you didn't mention rocs / rukhs. I don't particularly like the nasnas-based idea though.

Wyverns would probably be at best distant relatives of the drakes and dragons. Typically the term "wyvern" is used for a draconic creature with two legs and two wings (compared to the standard fantasy dragon with four legs and two wings), though maybe the sprite doesn't actually support this view. In any case, if there are wyverns, I don't think they should have any close relation to the other draconic races. To use an analogy, if drakes correspond to humans, wyverns might correspond to monkeys.

Bringing Bahamut into their mythology also sounds interesting, though I'm not sure how well that would work. (There's also no need to change the name, just for the record.)


Forgot the rukhs, and the scorpions, too. I'm not fond of the nasnas either, it would be strange in terms of story, gameplay and spriting (half a Dunefolk? How would that work?).

According to my proposed origin, the Dunefolk would have brought wyverns from the Old Continent, and as such, they would indeed be distant relatives of the draconic races of the Great Continent.

If a legendary creature such as Bahamut is included in their mythology, I wouldn't want it to keep its original name, though. Rukhs are fine, but Bahamut is so overused in fantasy it hurts (99% of the times as a dragon).

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:I just think it would be weird for any direct contact between the king and the dunefolk to go unrecorded. Furthermore, keeping such contact a secret would be difficult (though admittedly not impossible) - if dunefolk visit Weldyn, they're going to stand out like a sore thumb.


Just a few of them wouldn't be noticed. They could even go masked or with hoods or something.

Can-ned_Food wrote:Bleh, yet one more comment from me — but I think bovine versus equine beasts of burden has something to do with the digestive procedures of the ruminants. Cattle would be better at extracting nutrition and such from limited vegetable foods than would horses which have only a large colon and not multiple stomachs.

That is, of course, if they are limited. Maybe they have only few horses among the elites and nobles, and use them entirely for martial or recreational activities.


That doesn't have to be an issue if they mostly live around oases or fertile areas in the desert. And the more nomadic Dunefolk societies would be able to hunt with the help of their tamed monsters. And they could use rhinos or elephants as beasts of burden. (?)
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Postby Eagle_11 » January 21st, 2018, 7:45 pm

Just a few of them wouldn't be noticed. They could even go masked or with hoods or something.

Better yet, the royal ambassadors can ride with an patrol consisting of the most loyal soldiers to the outskirts of the desert guised as being on a hunt, to meet in secret with the dunefolk, et cetera. The ideas that can be applied there are many.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Postby Pentarctagon » January 21st, 2018, 7:52 pm

How they've managed to have secret negotiations with various races in secret from the general populace should be stated though, or at least hinted at. It wouldn't be just them sticking out, but keeping anything substantiative from leaking out regarding an entire civilization would not be a simple task, especially if there have been actual attacks.

It might be better to simplify:
Talks with these southern people have mostly remained in the unwritten pages of history, as if the very mention of their existence would strike fear in the hearts of the general populace, but it is rumored that some kings of Wesnoth retained the knowledge of their motives and ambitions through occasional diplomatic attempts, and the elves, their closest neighbors, through trade partnerships, battles and alliances.


to something along the lines of them being a secretive people, and all attempts at negotiation require the utmost discretion to be exercised by their more northern counterparts.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Postby skeptical_troll » January 21st, 2018, 8:32 pm

I overall like the last description by Kasdel, but I think the part regarding Wesnoth should be left out or softened. I find it highly unrealistic that the existence of a whole civilization could be kept secret from the general populace. In both countries there must be explorers (they both crossed an ocean, somehow!), and they both have coastal cities and relations with elves (according to the same paragraph) to grant at least indirect knowledge. Besides, it is unnecessarily constraining for future UMCs or the to-come mainline Dunefolk campaign. The relation with Wesnoth is an obvious subject to explore and I feel that such a description would rule out a great number of possible and interesting scenarios.

Why not mentioning the city-states structure instead? It would have the advantage of being a general fact not referring to any historical moment in particular.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Postby SigurdFireDragon » January 30th, 2018, 12:15 am

Ok, five pages of posts and 2 candidates for the race description.

I think Can-ned_Food's could stand to have a little bit more information, Kasdel's a little less.
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