Secrets of the Ancients

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Re: Secrets of the Ancients

Postby UnwiseOwl » March 14th, 2017, 11:44 pm

Aye. All good advice. I think that I was extra-cautious given my failed attempts at the level previously.
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But perhaps 'maintainer' is too strong a word.
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients

Postby beetlenaut » March 15th, 2017, 2:12 am

In case anyone is interested, here's how I do it.
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SotA-Carcyn_replay.gz
Using up-to-date 1.13
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Campaigns: Dead Water
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients

Postby UnwiseOwl » March 16th, 2017, 11:23 am

I've played a little further and thus post my notes for the next section. I continue to be really impressed by this campaign and 100% agree that it deserves to be mainlined.

Notes:
It's weird that the kids suddenly get old when they upgrade from Dark Adepts. It might be nice to force their portraits to remain the Dark Adept ones to reflect their youth. This is particularly obvious for Carcyn.

11_Battleground
Nice little bits of Saurian lore there. Much appreciated.

12_Walking_Trees
Enjoyed this one. I hope we meet that elf again later, she needs teaching a lesson.
The 'uprooted' image is a nice idea, but feels weird. If it were up to me, I'd place if when the Woses first spawn, just because it seems really confusing when it's appearing in situations after we'ce seen that the Wose has already moved away from that position.

14_Entering_the_Northlands
This one seemed unusually easy for me, but that might have been due to the large amount of gold that I'd saved up in the previous scenarios.
I was disappointed to see a Shaman and not have anything remotely interesting happen with him. I can't think of what I would have happen, but it feels like he's there just so that we can see some rare units, and doesn't really add anything to the scenario, which is a pity given the importance of the Shamans in orcish lore.

15_Mountain_Pass
Honestly getting a bit sick of the 'single unit type attacks out of fog' mechanic so soon after the Woses, but it's only the second scenario like this. It's fine.
It's weird that the Griffins recruit from Keeps. Can they be changed to nests ala Heir to the Throne?

16_The_Mage
Oh awesome, we walked through Arken-Thoria without a dungeon-crawl level!
Hey, its Crelanu! I'm really enjoying the nods to Wesnoth lore going on in this campaign.
The free Archmages that appear out of the blue are a little mean. I was just closing for the kill on turn 5 when an Archmage appears out of the blue with full movement points and rips my units apart. If Crelanu is going to get free units, I think that's more than fine, but maybe they should have 0 movement points on recruit.

17_Mortality
Ras Tabahn goes behind the altar sprite before appearing on top of it. I think it would look better if he stayed in front of it.

18_Abandoned_Outpost
Looks like I spoke too soon about avoiding a dungeon-crawl! :p
Art in this level is kick-ass. Spiderwebs are sweet and Adryn-Na's portrait is a glorious thing.
Terminal bug found at the end of this level that means it's impossible to advance without debug. When you kill all the spiders you get:
Code: Select all
20170316 11:09:52 error scripting/lua: game_error: creating unit with an empty type field
stack traceback:
   [C]: in field 'create_unit'
   lua/wml-tags.lua:1027: in local 'cmd'
   lua/wml-utils.lua:137: in field 'handle_event_commands'
   lua/wml-flow.lua:6: in function <lua/wml-flow.lua:5>
   [C]: in field 'fire_event'
   lua/wml-tags.lua:145: in local 'cmd'
   lua/wml-utils.lua:137: in field 'handle_event_commands'
   lua/wml-flow.lua:20: in local 'cmd'
   lua/wml-utils.lua:137: in field 'handle_event_commands'
   lua/wml-flow.lua:6: in function <lua/wml-flow.lua:5>

Pretty sure that this is caused by trying to unstore a non-existant unit (since I didn't move either leader to the end of the passage).
Maintainer of the Imperial Era and the campaigns Dreams of Urduk, Epic of Vaniyera, Up from Slavery, Fall of Silvium, Alfhelm the Wise and Gali's Contract.
But perhaps 'maintainer' is too strong a word.
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients

Postby SigurdFireDragon » March 16th, 2017, 5:30 pm

UnwiseOwl wrote:
16_The_Mage
Oh awesome, we walked through Arken-Thoria without a dungeon-crawl level!
Hey, its Crelanu! I'm really enjoying the nods to Wesnoth lore going on in this campaign.
The free Archmages that appear out of the blue are a little mean. I was just closing for the kill on turn 5 when an Archmage appears out of the blue with full movement points and rips my units apart. If Crelanu is going to get free units, I think that's more than fine, but maybe they should have 0 movement points on recruit.

17_Mortality
Ras Tabahn goes behind the altar sprite before appearing on top of it. I think it would look better if he stayed in front of it.

18_Abandoned_Outpost
...Pretty sure that this is caused by trying to unstore a non-existant unit (since I didn't move either leader to the end of the passage).


16_The_Mage - Fixed for BfW 1.13.7 version

17_Mortality - I'll take a look at this.

18_Abandoned_Outpost - Already been fixed for BfW 1.13.7 version
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients

Postby beetlenaut » March 16th, 2017, 6:35 pm

UnwiseOwl wrote:It's weird that the kids suddenly get old when they upgrade from Dark Adepts.
It needs better portraits in general. (And zombie rats.) I'm hoping some artist will take an interest in it now.
UnwiseOwl wrote:Ras Tabahn goes behind the altar sprite before appearing on top of it. I think it would look better if he stayed in front of it.
This would be a lot harder than it sounds because of the way some kinds images are adjusted for the light levels, and others are not.
UnwiseOwl wrote:Terminal bug found at the end of this level that means it's impossible to advance without debug.
Yeah, you're right about the bug, but it used to work fine. Like SigurdFireDragon says, it's fixed for 1.13.7, but I forgot to update the scenario on the add-on server. I've done that now.
UnwiseOwl wrote:It's weird that the Griffins recruit from Keeps.
I've seen that in lots of campaigns. Only HttT has something different. I'll think about it though.
UnwiseOwl wrote:Hey, its Crelanu! I'm really enjoying the nods to Wesnoth lore going on in this campaign.
It was fun putting them in, too! I'm still waiting for someone to say that they noticed the most obscure one.
Campaigns: Dead Water
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Secrets of the Ancients
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients

Postby SigurdFireDragon » March 16th, 2017, 7:11 pm

beetlenaut wrote:
UnwiseOwl wrote:Ras Tabahn goes behind the altar sprite before appearing on top of it. I think it would look better if he stayed in front of it.
This would be a lot harder than it sounds because of the way some kinds images are adjusted for the light levels, and others are not.


It didn't seem to be, I have a fix in the PR. the results looked fine AFAICT. Did I miss something? Did something change from when you did it?
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients

Postby beetlenaut » March 16th, 2017, 8:07 pm

SigurdFireDragon wrote:the results looked fine AFAICT.
Yeah, it looks fine now. They must have changed the way TOD affects images. I did it that way originally, but then the altar changed color. (We should remember to check it before 1.14 to make sure it still looks right.)
Campaigns: Dead Water
The Founding of Borstep
Secrets of the Ancients
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients

Postby Samonella » March 22nd, 2017, 4:02 pm

Hey, I just tried playing this campaign in 1.13.7, newly in mainline. It looks great so far! I came across one really weird bug though; from this save, I can't get the second scenario to load. Whether i move to the signpost or use ;next_level, the game crashes without any kind of error message. It saves the replay, but doesn't load or create a save for scenario 2.

I tried restarting the campaign and cheating to win on the first turn, which works and I can keep playing. So I'll just do that and cheat to get back the experienced units that I care about.
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SotA-Slipping_Away-Auto-Save14.gz
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The last few months have been nothing but one big, painful reminder that TIMTLTW.

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Re: Secrets of the Ancients

Postby beetlenaut » March 22nd, 2017, 5:06 pm

It crashes for me too. If I run Wesnoth from the console, it tells me that there is an error with a modification called "hi" (I assume that's an abbreviation), and not actually SotA itself. On my system, that problem makes sense since I don't have any modifications loaded. Everything works fine if I remove the lines referencing hi from the savefile though, so maybe that will fix it for you too. I uploaded that version of the savefile. Even if you don't need it anymore, please try it and see if it works. Run Wesnoth from a console if you know how so you can see if you get an error. If you know what hi refers to, let me know that too. I'm trying to get some more information because one of us should write a bug report about this.
fixed-SotA-Slipping_Away-Auto-Save14.gz
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Anyway, I'm glad you like my campaign so far!
Campaigns: Dead Water
The Founding of Borstep
Secrets of the Ancients
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients

Postby Samonella » March 22nd, 2017, 6:10 pm

beetlenaut wrote:It crashes for me too. If I run Wesnoth from the console, it tells me that there is an error with a modification called "hi" (I assume that's an abbreviation), and not actually SotA itself.

Ah, that somewhat explains it. It definitely has nothing to do with SotA. I had a temporary modification called "hi" as a work around for a 1.13.6 bug (see here for details), and I guess I removed it in-between starting and finishing that scenario. The only strange thing is that I could swear I didn't check the modification to be active when I started the campaign, but I'll experiment with it when I get a chance. Thanks!

EDIT: Now that I know what the problem was, everything seems to be working as expected. My crashes definitely were due to the missing mod, confirmed by the logs (which I should have known to check anyway :mrgreen: ). Also, it doesn't crash if the modification isn't active when the campaign is started; I must have had it turned on without realizing it. I guess the only problem here is that there's no player-visible error message.
The last few months have been nothing but one big, painful reminder that TIMTLTW.

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Re: Secrets of the Ancients

Postby UnwiseOwl » March 23rd, 2017, 6:30 pm

19_Lava and Stone
I do wonder if Adryn-Na should skip straight to Ancient Lich. It seems that she and Ras-Tabahn should be the same, either both Ancient or both Liches, rather than her skipping ahead. She WILL upgrade, so you'll still get the cool sprite soon enough.
Ugh. I do hate dungeon crawls...
Good use of the stone bridges, they look excellent with the lava.

20_North_Knalga
Hall of Heroes is nice. Reminds me of A-Red's Stone Remembers, very cool.
The level works fine, but I think I'd prefer it if the miners ran away (maybe using an animal AI?) more actively.
I'm not sure if allowing the long passage on the Western side to sneak ghosts in and assassinate the leader (which I did) is really that great at this stage of the campaign, as an early end to the level is likely to make a huge difference to the amount of carry-on gold for the final scenario, which will make it pretty tough to balance.

21_Against_the_World
Bloody hell. I started this level with 600 gold, which I suspect is more than most people will, and I found this level exceedingly difficult.
I'm getting extremely poor performance on this level (almost a minute for the dwarfish, mage and elfish leaders to speak), but I guess it's not surprising considering my laggy pc and the sheer number of units out here.
I kinda wish that the Elvish leader was that snotty lady that set the Woses on us, I'd really have liked to have had a chance to teach her a lesson.

The campaign credits appear twice at the end of the campaign.
Thanks again, good campaign and well-placed in the Wesnoth lore. I like it a lot.
Attachments
SotA-Against_the_World_replay.gz
(102.67 KiB) Downloaded 63 times
Maintainer of the Imperial Era and the campaigns Dreams of Urduk, Epic of Vaniyera, Up from Slavery, Fall of Silvium, Alfhelm the Wise and Gali's Contract.
But perhaps 'maintainer' is too strong a word.
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients

Postby SigurdFireDragon » May 25th, 2017, 9:35 pm

UnwiseOwl wrote:I'm getting extremely poor performance on this level (almost a minute for the dwarfish, mage and elfish leaders to speak), but I guess it's not surprising considering my laggy pc and the sheer number of units out here.


It's not your computer, a bug had crept in during the conversion to 1.13. It has been fixed for BfW 1.13.9
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