Fate of a Princess

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Re: Fate of a Princess

Postby taptap » February 13th, 2012, 3:47 pm

SkyOne wrote:
taptap wrote:In the Hydra cavern, one reason of me hurrying and not trying to kill everything was that Turuk explicitly said so. (And obviously there are still some surprises on the last meters that can delay you considerably.) Maybe give a subtle hint via Turuk. As I don't recruit/recall drakes in a cave I would have been in no position to profit from the troll rune as well, it feels wrong to give a bonus only for those who make a mistake, and until reaching the trolls I would have been in negative gold anyway.

I actually have already installed words that Turuk mentions about missing a friend in the cave (on the attached one). But Let's see what else I can do...
taptap wrote:The overlays look nice, but I didn't look at them in-game.

Because of the bug I told you, I will update the new edition in near future. So if you can wait a few days (hopefully), you can play a better version.
The bow icon looks okay in the game.:)

Thank you so much for the attention.:)


Well, I won't play it again very soon, as long as I manage to finish the last scenario without crossaligned drake and dwarf lord. (If you have an information about him then I obviously just missed it, a little punishment for people who don't read carefully is fine.)

In the final scenario it is easy to make mistakes, my problem was that I don't really have units that tank, but reliably don't kill the opponents. Leading to chain suicides, which are troublesome especially for the fairy force. Especially Eameral slow attack brought me into trouble, it reliably slows, but the skeleton is so weakened by the slow already, that it may die against a fairy. I stopped two attempts past the nightgaunts, because the renewed attack caught me with surprise or bad positioning (w/ ice fairies still nightgaunt hunting) and bogged me down that I found it hard to make more progress (with the clock ticking).

Ha, regarding the story... you sometimes enter caves "because they are on our way" anyway. Give some compelling reasons for doing so, as is the hero certainly should blame himself for going into all these caves "that are on the way" when coming some hours late to rescue Zluld. Maybe you can give Zluld and his guys more HP (3/4 of full health, same position) so that it could be a (nearly impossible) challenge to rescue him. This adds more drama than the sure first or second turn death as is, you have so much ranged arcane damage anyway that even giving him as a loyal unit when rescued wouldn't change the balance.
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Postby SkyOne » February 14th, 2012, 1:43 pm

taptap wrote:Well, I won't play it again very soon, as long as I manage to finish the last scenario without crossaligned drake and dwarf lord. (If you have an information about him then I obviously just missed it, a little punishment for people who don't read carefully is fine.)

Sure!
Now, I don't have to rush for updating the new one.:)
taptap wrote:I stopped two attempts past the nightgaunts, because the renewed attack caught me with surprise or bad positioning (w/ ice fairies still nightgaunt hunting) and bogged me down that I found it hard to make more progress (with the clock ticking).

Yes, that part is tricky, especially on HARD difficulty.
I have added a teleport rune recently to make the part easily a little bit, but there is not the exact reason why it appears. I will appreciate if you could tell me your impression regarding to the appearance. Is that acceptable at the point?
taptap wrote:Ha, regarding the story... you sometimes enter caves "because they are on our way" anyway. Give some compelling reasons for doing so, as is the hero certainly should blame himself for going into all these caves "that are on the way" when coming some hours late to rescue Zluld.

Thank you for the advise.
Actually, I forgot fixing this one:
Guided by Falci-Nyess, Háwclyn and his party cautiously approached the cave of Ghidsaurs the dragon. The cave was located a little way south of the previous battle, which meant it was on Háwclyn’s return route in any case.
The Dragon's cave is the opposite direction (west, as shown on BG-map) from the previous battle, so it is not a return route at all. And Háwclyn and Zylvia argue about going to the cave or not at the Coalition of Orc scenario (sorry for making the excuse). It will be fixed on the next edition, anyway.
taptap wrote:Maybe you can give Zluld and his guys more HP (3/4 of full health, same position) so that it could be a (nearly impossible) challenge to rescue him. This adds more drama than the sure first or second turn death as is, you have so much ranged arcane damage anyway that even giving him as a loyal unit when rescued wouldn't change the balance.

Ho.. This idea is new, and interesting... Thanks for the idea.
Although adjusting some parts will be necessary, and saving an ai-unit in the game is very difficult as I imagine, it is possible to do, and it may make the game more fun.

I personally wanted to use Elvish Lord in this campaign, so one of my plans was to turn Háwclyn to Lord to fill up Zluld's roll after his death. But he is not from the royal family, so I decided to keep the same unit.


Thank you so much, taptap.
Your feedbacks are so helpful for the next edition.:)
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Postby taptap » February 18th, 2012, 11:42 pm

So, I finally finished the campaign. The final is all fine until you surround Gulder and want to kill him. What comes next is simply overkill. There is no way you can master this without previous knowledge. It is exactly this kind of surprise that induces people to save/load.

Turn 10 first opponent
Turn 26 second opponent
Turn 31 opened the wall
Turn 43 Gulder surrounded

...

at this point I feared some surprise saved the game before I attacked, I had 4 ice fairies, 2 enchantresses (started as shaman in this scenario), 2 snow fairies, Shoko, Eameral, Alingwen, 3 champions, one with arcane damage (another died earlier) + a number of other units. For all practical purposes an unbeatable force, but you added such a ridiculous amount of spawning L3 and L4 units + a deep water trench that no matter what you will lose without save/load or pre-knowledge. This spoils the fun and is an horrible end to an otherwise wonderful campaign. Please, please, please at least reduce the spawning units to a less ridiculous amount and change the deep water (even ice fairies can't pass) to shallow water.
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Postby SkyOne » March 3rd, 2012, 5:27 pm

taptap wrote:I had 4 ice fairies, 2 enchantresses (started as shaman in this scenario), 2 snow fairies, Shoko, Eameral, Alingwen, 3 champions, one with arcane damage (another died earlier) + a number of other units. For all practical purposes an unbeatable force

These are the excellent line-up for the final battle.:) I usually recruit one (or two) Elvish Shaman(s) as soon as capturing back the Elengavion Castle on Zluld's Last Stand scenario for this final battle.
taptap wrote:you added such a ridiculous amount of spawning L3 and L4 units + a deep water trench that no matter what you will lose without save/load or pre-knowledge. This spoils the fun and is an horrible end to an otherwise wonderful campaign. Please, please, please at least reduce the spawning units to a less ridiculous amount and change the deep water (even ice fairies can't pass) to shallow water.

It isn't that horrible, is it? But yes, I have replaces a couple of the deep water terrains to the shallow ones at the part on the newest edition, 0.9.11. I am positive that the co-workers will agree with it. I keep the ridiculous amount of spawning L3 and L4 units, though, because you have been still able to finish the campaign as well. The number of them depends on the difficulty level, so maybe, I should reduce the number a bit on the HARD difficulty at the part in the future. If I can indicate the matter, that Gulder increased his power, by using/doing something else, instead of spawning L3 and L4 units, in the game, those will be unnecessary.

I appreciate finishing whole campaign.:)
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Postby taptap » March 3rd, 2012, 6:21 pm

Well, only by looking what happens and positioning accordingly. I doubt there is a chance to win this final without knowing beforehand what happens. Adding shallow water is an important step in this direction, thanks.

If he produces 6 L3 units per turn and is hard to reach this is already hard, but spawning a dozen or more L3+L4 units suddenly all around you that strike you on the very next turn + he starts to produce 6 L3 per turn anyway. If you attack him towards the end of your turn they can wipe you out within a single turn.

Maybe an idea could be to add something that the player has a chance to guess where the spawns will be (bones or statues) and let Gulder start an incantation that will need a turn. And you could add some dialog about this suspicious huge pile of bones over there.

Then it isn't as dependent on the timing of your first strike against him and the knowledge dependency is somewhat limited. Then you have at least a fighting chance to do this on your first try. Otherwise you will either save/load or replay the whole scenario to this point and then line up next to the second keep of Gulder before hitting him for the first time (which is what I did)... which of course shouldn't be the way it is played. Maybe it is possible to fight through his reinforcements when you are prepared, the problem is currently you have no incentive to try this, for if you know what happens, you will simply line up next to his second keep and finish him quickly (which then is pretty easy), so there is no incentive to fight the reinforcements when you are able to (= with knowledge) and no possibility to fight them when you are forced to (= without knowledge). As is it is the biggest tomato surprise in all Wesnoth.
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Postby SkyOne » March 4th, 2012, 11:15 am

Thank you, taptap.
What you say is pretty much reasonable, and what I should do is to change the part from the tomato surprise to just a surprise.
taptap wrote:If he produces 6 L3 units per turn and is hard to reach this is already hard, but spawning a dozen or more L3+L4 units suddenly all around you that strike you on the very next turn + he starts to produce 6 L3 per turn anyway. If you attack him towards the end of your turn they can wipe you out within a single turn.

Maybe an idea could be to add something that the player has a chance to guess where the spawns will be (bones or statues) and let Gulder start an incantation that will need a turn. And you could add some dialog about this suspicious huge pile of bones over there.

Oh, yes! This idea will work. Thank you.
If I recall correctly, some Damon spends two turns to appear on IftU and The Unstoppable Legion campaign. I may be able to use that action at the part. In the early time, the co-worker, mich, mentioned that the location of spawning the units should be farer from Gulder's first keep. But I only moved back them one or two hexes. That mich's opinion is actually from the same concept as you said. Let's see how it's going to be. I will have to think about the fake images of the undead soldiers. Like you said, I may start with bones-image, then use the back word of Soulless's dying animation.:) I think another co-woker, Simons Mith, will like it, too.

But I will probably keep this part:
taptap wrote:line up next to the second keep of Gulder before hitting him for the first time (which is what I did)... which of course shouldn't be the way it is played. Maybe it is possible to fight through his reinforcements when you are prepared, the problem is currently you have no incentive to try this, for if you know what happens, you will simply line up next to his second keep and finish him quickly (which then is pretty easy), so there is no incentive to fight the reinforcements when you are able to (= with knowledge)

Hopefully, changing just how to appear L3 and L4 undead soldiers will be fine enough at the part... It actually helps me a lot to test the ending (not for playing). :P


Thank you for making the excellent feedbacks.
Please keep doing it for this community. Your tasks are possible to rise up whole level of Wesnoth UMC.:)
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Postby taptap » March 14th, 2012, 6:29 pm

Some remaining thoughts, which I may not have communicated earlier:

- In Hydra's cavern the alignment changing rune is an incentive to bad play, although happily not necessary at all. (The player is supposed to recall/recruit drakes in an exclusively underground scenario.)

- In Dragon's cave the whole choice of the northern or southern rune is pretty much random, the only thing you can do is to wait until you get the necessary item first, but this rune choice adds nothing but a frustrating attempt to go through the front entrance and a restart. I don't think changing the alternative route from unwinnable to very hard is the right change. In fact, I would simply remove one rune, then only people who didn't care to read the note will come in the situation that they have to try to break through the front entrance.

- Is there any chance that you change the way you "drop a bridge" on the first parts leaders in the two intermediate scenarios, given that there is in fact a long time between both parts?

- The magic power math when Gulder appears doesn't really appeal to me: the main point that Eameral and Ameck have to combine their strength to beat Gulder doesn't need this elaborate mathematics. I imagine how epic the matchup between Saruman and Gandalf would have been when we were informed about their relative magic levels - I believe this kind of dialog removes some of the epicness.

Thanks once more for all your work on this wonderful campaign.
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Postby SkyOne » March 18th, 2012, 9:38 am

Thank you, taptap. A new version has been updated.

Not exactly the way of what I said on the previous post, I stepped away back the undead soldiers on 25_Fate_of_a_Princess scenario when Gulder moves to the second keep, and decreased slightly their numbers, except on EASY difficulty. I hope it is fine now.
taptap wrote:- In Hydra's cavern the alignment changing rune is an incentive to bad play, although happily not necessary at all. (The player is supposed to recall/recruit drakes in an exclusively underground scenario.)

I installed like "a challenger will be rescued" thing at the part. In fact, Trolls cannot reach at very bottom (south) of their chamber. So recruiting just one Drake Fighter in any keeps and making him chaotic unit is the way at the part. I usually let him take the Flame Sword later on, instead of any Elves.

When I started creating this campaign, drake campaigns were very few on the server. So I designed this one to cover them, like NR. Even drakes are weak in cave-maps, the drake funs still recruit many drakes on this campaign actually.
taptap wrote:- In Dragon's cave the whole choice of the northern or southern rune is pretty much random, the only thing you can do is to wait until you get the necessary item first, but this rune choice adds nothing but a frustrating attempt to go through the front entrance and a restart. I don't think changing the alternative route from unwinnable to very hard is the right change. In fact, I would simply remove one rune, then only people who didn't care to read the note will come in the situation that they have to try to break through the front entrance.

Oh, that is right. There has already been a choice, stepping on the rune or not, before choosing which runes. I did not imagine the play that players don't read Vlady's memo. Thank you! On the version I have just updated, the part has been changed with an idea.:wink:
taptap wrote:- Is there any chance that you change the way you "drop a bridge" on the first parts leaders in the two intermediate scenarios, given that there is in fact a long time between both parts?

Hm? Sorry, I don't really understand well what you mean under my English ability. You mean to add a couple of scenarios to fill the transition between the the two parts?
taptap wrote:- The magic power math when Gulder appears doesn't really appeal to me: the main point that Eameral and Ameck have to combine their strength to beat Gulder doesn't need this elaborate mathematics. I imagine how epic the matchup between Saruman and Gandalf would have been when we were informed about their relative magic levels - I believe this kind of dialog removes some of the epicness.

Someone mentioned it before, I believe. I thought young aged players like it because the idea was from comic/cartoon, Dragon Ball (Z?). I will think about it. Editing dialogues is actually not as easy as everyone thinks for me if they once completed... Sometimes, editing WML is easier than it even I am not a programmer. Maybe, I am going to wait Simons Mith's return to discuss with it. But thanks for comparing with the matchup between Saruman and Gandalf. I am happy to hear it.:)
taptap wrote:Thanks once more for all your work on this wonderful campaign.

You are very welcome.:)
I put your name in the credit list with perseo on version 0.9.12. I hope you don't mind.
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Postby HD-Berlin » February 2nd, 2014, 3:48 pm

Too lazy to write a review, but I like what I have seen so far.

In "Mysterious Cave" at the beginning of round 2 Baldres says "Tell me, lizard-man...", but there is no lizard-man and no answer. What should be a dialogue turns into a strange monologue. :hmm:
(Playing version 1.3.3 on Wesnoth 1.11.8.)
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Postby SkyOne » February 2nd, 2014, 5:42 pm

HD-Berlin wrote:In "Mysterious Cave" at the beginning of round 2 Baldres says "Tell me, lizard-man...", but there is no lizard-man and no answer. What should be a dialogue turns into a strange monologue.
(Playing version 1.3.3 on Wesnoth 1.11.8.)

If Slixxik is not on the map, it is a unknown bug on the scenario. Is he not on the map?

The part is supposed to be:
Baldres; - "Tell me, lizard-man. What do those signs mean?"
Slixxik; - "I do not know exssactly, but I am sure we ssshould not go near them."
Baldres; - "Oh. I assumed you would know, being a local…
But if you know nothing about them, we will take our own chances. We may even find some treasure down here."


Thank you for posting.
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Postby HD-Berlin » February 2nd, 2014, 11:09 pm

OK, maybe I should not have killed this saurian at the beginning of the previous scenario... :whistle:
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Postby SkyOne » February 5th, 2014, 4:11 pm

After the investigation: - without Slixxik, entering the 05b Mysterious Cave scenario was supposed to be impossible, but actually, one of the variables had not been cleared on 05 In the Wild scenario. So if Slixxik is defeated after he turned to side=1, entering the Mysterious Cave scenario was possible. Sorry for the bug.

The fixed version, 1.3.4, is now on the 1.11 server.

There are some other changes on this update:
- Some [micro_ai] actions have also been added on 05b Mysterious Cave, 15 Dwarvish Warden, 21 Coalition of Orcs, and 23 Zluld's Last Stand scenarios.
- an item, Dragonshotgun, has been removed, but almost the same weapons are replaced on the unit of Dwarvish Noble and Warden. So 16 Drake Lord scenario has been modified.
- the female portrait has been added for Forester-line units.
- a couple of scenarios of side=2 allied units is available to recall. That is:
-- the survivors of side=2 allied Dwarves on 15 Dwarvish Warden scenario are added on the recall-list of 17 Mountain Path scenario. Two of Drakes are also possible to carry on the scenario (if they survive). In addition, a Dwarvish Fighter is added on the scenario.
-- as the same thing on 21 Coalition of Orcs scenario, allied Drakes are added on the recall-list of 22b The Battle at Prestim scenario.


Thank you.
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Postby HD-Berlin » February 5th, 2014, 10:02 pm

I have encountered a bigger problem now. In the scenarios with a changed leader (07 and 09), when I try to attack with the leader (Jil) the wesnoth game crashes completely. :hmm: Perhaps a general bug (not just this add-on)?

(Still playing version 1.3.3 on Wesnoth 1.11.8, Windows 8.1)
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Postby SkyOne » February 6th, 2014, 2:12 pm

HD-Berlin wrote:I have encountered a bigger problem now. In the scenarios with a changed leader (07 and 09), when I try to attack with the leader (Jil) the wesnoth game crashes completely. :hmm: Perhaps a general bug (not just this add-on)?

(Still playing version 1.3.3 on Wesnoth 1.11.8, Windows 8.1)

You are right. It occurs on mine of 1.11.8 although it was fine on 1.11.7. At this moment, I am not sure why it happens..., but I have to find it out as soon as possible. (it also occurs on scenario 22b The Battle at Prstim of this campaign.)

If you don't mind, you can switch to BfW 1.11.7 just to play this campaign. It needs BfW 1.11.8 just for first two scenarios. The others are fine on 1.11.7. And crossing with FoaP 1.3.3 and 1.3.4 will be just fine.


I appreciate the report.:)
-----------------------

EDIT:
Now I found out the solution. mattsc explained it as well: - viewtopic.php?p=566707#p566707
It is a part my fault, and fixable from my side for playing it on 1.11.8. I am going to upload the fixed version in a few days (or in a week). Until then, dragging these scenarios in the scenario-folder of the campaign is the temporary-solution:
07_Forbidden_Ambition.cfg
(22.65 KiB) Downloaded 136 times
09_Common_Enemy.cfg
(25.45 KiB) Downloaded 132 times
22b_At_Prestim.cfg
(24.49 KiB) Downloaded 132 times

-----------------------

EDIT:
The fixed version, 1.3.5, has been on the 1.11 server since Feb, 10th.
Except the bug-fix above, scenario 22b The Battle at Prestim has slightly been modified, and the name has been installed to the Dwarf who has previously been added on 15 Dwarvish Warden scenario. In addition, some of [filter_vision] tags have been fixed to avoid any errors.


thanks
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Postby taptap » February 14th, 2014, 6:25 pm

In cut-scenes between scenarios you tend to bring a picture for each new text. I would much prefer one picture that fits the situation and calmly one text after each other with only one background picture. Far from reducing the graphical quality this would make the individual picture count more (and would you give the opportunity to choose a good one as you don't have to hunt one per sentence). Compare the start of Liberty with the start Fate of a Princess to see what I mean.
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