Fate of a Princess

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Elvish_Hunter
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Post by Elvish_Hunter » July 18th, 2010, 11:30 am

SkyOne wrote:But you are not a player who is supposed to play on EASY, are you?
Maybe not. I'm playing since 0.9.4...
SkyOne wrote:Yes, so is BMR. It has been always in my mind. But I would like all players to know (1)what Baldres is, (2)who originally Gulcyn and Fioniel are, (3)what Täkel is, and (4)how the Greenwood Blade is back to the Greenwood. We should make (2) clearer on the part-1, tough. I think that the most of players do not recognize Fioniel is Gulder's mother in the game. Hmmm... however, you may be right. I probably should discuss about it with co-workers.
In TSoG, when the player finishes Part 1, he/she goes directly on Part 2. If a player starts on Part 2, well, usually it's because he/she already played Part 1 and knows the story already. Just my opinion.
SkyOne wrote:Nice! I respect how quick you learn the skill of the art work (also, WML). This is an almost mainline quality. (good enough for UMC)
While the most that I can do is still recolouring and frankensteining, I'm honoured to read this :)
SkyOne wrote:From my point of view: you just need to add a base frame (you may have one already?)
Sure:Image
SkyOne wrote: a shorter beak as young one
Unfortunately, altering the dimension of any part is out of my skills, at least for now :(
SkyOne wrote:and adjusting color of shadow
The colour was altered by the fact that I had to remove the alpha channel to create a good GIF.
SkyOne wrote:I think you can post it on Art Contribution Forum. (Maybe, it's better on Art Workshop Forum first?) Gryphon level=1 is acceptable for the core, I think.
I'll post in Art Workshop.
EDIT: This is now posted in Art Workshop, http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=30819 . If you want, here there are the zipped PNG frames.
SkyOne wrote:Oh, sure! I would like to see it. Thanks.
Ok. This is how sighted+moveto+[filter_vision] are integrated in LTD, Back to Karenin:
Spoiler:
This is the code of my NEAREST_UNIT macro:
Spoiler:
and this is how I actually use it in TSoG, Deep Levels:
Spoiler:
SkyOne wrote:Grazie, Elvish_Hunter Have a great weekend.
Thank you! :D
Current maintainer of these add-ons:
1.14: The Sojournings of Grog, A Rough Life, The White Troll (co-author), Wesnoth Lua Pack
1.12: Children of Dragons

macherb
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Post by macherb » July 19th, 2010, 3:06 pm

SkyOne wrote:This is the feedback thread for Fate of a Princess.
The Questions:
1. What version of Battle for Wesnoth did you play?
1.8
2. What version of Fate of a Princess (or the scenario) did you play?
0.7.5
3. What difficulty level did you select to play the campaign? (easy/normal/hard)
normal
4. How difficult did you find the scenario or the campaign? (1-10)
8-12 :)
5. How clear did you find the objectives on the scenario or the campaign? (1-10)
9, see below
6. What aspect of the campaign needs the most work? (dialog, unit images, etc.)
It's quite good and balanced
7. Which part of the campaign did you like? (part-1/part-2)
I have no favorite
8. How do you like the story on this campaign? (1-10)
I like it.
9. Do you have any additional comments?
For me, the scenario 21 was too difficult (in normal). I've tried several strategies, but at the end my poor army is overwhelmed by enymies. Either my army or the number of remaining rounds decline too fast. If there are hidden features, please give a hint otherwise a bit smalle income would make it easier.
What I cannot figure out, is the mechanism when cavewall-ghost appear.
10. What was your impression when you finished the campaign? (achievement, weariness, sadness, etc.)
I could not finish yet, unfortunately.

regards
Herbert

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SkyOne
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Post by SkyOne » July 19th, 2010, 5:01 pm

Thank you for the feedback, macherb.
This is a quick reply because it seems you are in the middle of the play, and almost finishing.
macherb wrote:For me, the scenario 21 was too difficult (in normal). I've tried several strategies, but at the end my poor army is overwhelmed by enymies. Either my army or the number of remaining rounds decline too fast. If there are hidden features, please give a hint otherwise a bit smalle income would make it easier.
What I cannot figure out, is the mechanism when cavewall-ghost appear.
You are in the final battle of the entire campaign, so you do not have to worry about your GOLD and units. Just recall the best units you have, then defeat Gulder. (actually, you do not really have to.:wink: )

As a strategy tip, if you can see a little path of the cave wall (another word, if you defeat the first cave wall phantom), moving the most of your best units in the front of the path is wise. The cave wall phantoms are not a lot, so leave just some units against them, then concentrate the enemies over the cave wall. Placing units who are chaotic alignment (except Saurians) and Dwarvish Professor, or who have the arcane damage type, in the front line with HEROs is effective. Using Eämeral as a battler (not just a healer) is also very effective on this scenario. The key to finish this scenario is to use Ameck's ability.

Thanks for playing. The ending will be soon for you.
I will appreciate if you listen to the sound and music at the ending. I can still cry at the ending, and I always recall Turuk there.:smile: (hopefully, he will be back to the forums)
Fate of a Princess/feedback thread: "What is in own heart that is the most important, not who you are."
Drake Campaign: Brave Wings/feedback thread, Naga Campaign: Return of the Monster, Saurian Campaign: Across the Ocean
Northern Forces - now on 1.12 server

macherb
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Post by macherb » July 23rd, 2010, 10:19 am

OK, I have finished now
As a strategy tip,.....
Thank you for your suggestions. I had to go back to scenario 19 to produce some professors (Probably oen should start earlier to collect professors), then it was fun to proceed. Almost. I had to start over or reload several times. In particular after gulder moved to his island - such a lot of level 3s.
And the two figures necessary for terminating were missing at the battle-field. It took me until turn 55 to fnish.

So I enjoyed the campaign but no, I will not try the hard version. :D

To revise my comments:
Question 4 (difficulty): 8/10

Question 10: relief that I did it at last

Thanks
macherb

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SkyOne
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Post by SkyOne » August 7th, 2010, 6:40 am

Sorry for delaying to reply, macherb. I have been working on the new edition, which is on the server now, following by your feedback.
macherb wrote: I had to go back to scenario 19 to produce some professors (Probably oen should start earlier to collect professors), then it was fun to proceed.
Thanks. This is actually very helpful to develop the campaign. I was able to imagine why that happened on you. It might cause to the variations of human units. I actually had been worried about it. The level=0 units advanced to four different kinds of human level=3. So what I did at this time are:

(1) I removed Woodsman from Háwclyn's recruitment list, then added one more unit on Adherent's advancements who is not going to advance to the level=3, except one unit who will be Human Commander of UtBS.

(2) The level=4 Ice Fairy has been added on the new edition by using Elvish Lady image (so the old Elvish Lady image replaces the original Elvish Lady on the campaign as Elvish Entourage (a dummy unit) on the new edition).

(3) Except poisoned enemies, Saurian Fighters were not useful much, so I have raised up their defense slightly on the new version, 0.7.7.
macherb wrote:Almost. I had to start over or reload several times. In particular after gulder moved to his island - such a lot of level 3s.
And the two figures necessary for terminating were missing at the battle-field. It took me until turn 55 to fnish.
That was too close. The 55th turn was the last turn on NORMAL. On the new edition, I added five turns each. Also, a new unit, Ice Fairy, will probably help you on the next time if you have another chance to play the scenario. Thank you indeed.
macherb wrote:So I enjoyed the campaign but no, I will not try the hard version.
Oh, the hard difficulty on this campaign is not too hard anymore, just a bit harder than the normal difficulty. In some scenarios, it used to be like a nightmare, but no longer.:smile:


We appreciate the feedback and playing through the end, macherb. It helped us a lot to develop this campaign, especially this uploading.:smile:


other changes on version 0.7.7:
Spoiler:
Fate of a Princess/feedback thread: "What is in own heart that is the most important, not who you are."
Drake Campaign: Brave Wings/feedback thread, Naga Campaign: Return of the Monster, Saurian Campaign: Across the Ocean
Northern Forces - now on 1.12 server

jearrr
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Post by jearrr » August 7th, 2010, 11:04 am

1. What version of Battle for Wesnoth did you play?
1.83

2. What version of Fate of a Princess (or the scenario) did you play?
0.75(?)

3. What difficulty level did you select to play the campaign? (easy/normal/hard)
easy

4. How difficult did you find the scenario or the campaign? (1-10)
5

5. How clear did you find the objectives on the scenario or the campaign? (1-10)
8

6. What aspect of the campaign needs the most work? (dialog, unit images, etc.)
The dialogue was very good. I found the transition between part 1 and part 2 irritating in terms of the plot.
Spoiler:
7. Which part of the campaign did you like? (part-1/part-2)
Both parts very very good. The first one was excellent because of the rogue-like nature of Your faction and the exotic characters, while the second showed new fresh enemies and a noce plot.

8. How do you like the story on this campaign? (1-10)
8

9. Do you have any additional comments?
Spoiler:
10. What was your impression when you finished the campaign? (achievement, weariness, sadness, etc.)
Spoiler:

charris
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Post by charris » August 8th, 2010, 9:37 pm

1. What version of Battle for Wesnoth did you play?

1.8.3

2. What version of Fate of a Princess (or the scenario) did you play?

Mixed, but ended up with 7.7 for the last senario.

3. What difficulty level did you select to play the campaign? (easy/normal/hard)

Normal

4. How difficult did you find the scenario or the campaign? (1-10)

8-10

5. How clear did you find the objectives on the scenario or the campaign? (1-10)

9

6. What aspect of the campaign needs the most work? (dialog, unit images, etc.)

The english needs some fixes but was understandable.

7. Which part of the campaign did you like? (part-1/part-2)

In that order. Part-1 one had lots of innovative aspects and the characters were more vivid. I particularly liked the scenery in some of the scenarios, the grazing horses in the first were a nice touch.

8. How do you like the story on this campaign? (1-10)

A lot. As others have pointed out, the transition between the two parts is a bit abrupt.

9. Do you have any additional comments?

The time constraints kept me pushing all the time which required a bit of attitude adjustment. After many tries I finally finished scenario 21 in 58 turns. I'm not sure I could have managed without the new 60 turn limit and the level 4 Ice Fairy.

10. What was your impression when you finished the campaign? (achievement, weariness, sadness, etc.)

Like recovering from an addiction. Now I have a life again.
Spoiler:

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SkyOne
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Post by SkyOne » August 9th, 2010, 12:12 pm

Thank you so much for feedbacks, jearrr and charris.
charris wrote:The english needs some fixes but was understandable.
Yeah, my English is still in the dialogues. If you find any mistakes, those are all mine, not Simons Mith's.
jearrr wrote:The dialogue was very good. I found the transition between part 1 and part 2 irritating in terms of the plot.
Spoiler:
charris wrote:As others have pointed out, the transition between the two parts is a bit abrupt.
Thanks so much for the comments. These feedbacks made me clear to do something about the transition. I personally do not want either to kill Baldres and his lieutenants in the game (combat), and to make him side=2 or 3. I am thinking to add a couple of scenarios (maybe, three) which tells until he sweeps away Queen Melindë or Elen-Garil breaks in his keep.

However, there will be still a transition in between the two parts because the time of part-2 is 37 years later of one in part-1. So it won't be easy to fill up the gap completely. So let me think and discuss with co-workers how we do, and creating the parts will take a while.
jearrr wrote:
7. Which part of the campaign did you like? (part-1/part-2)

Both parts very very good. The first one was excellent because of the rogue-like nature of Your faction and the exotic characters, while the second showed new fresh enemies and a noce plot.
8. How do you like the story on this campaign? (1-10)
jearrr wrote:8
charris wrote:A lot.
jearrr wrote:
9. Do you have any additional comments?
Spoiler:
Thank you so much.:smile: I am so so glad to hear them.
charris wrote:The time constraints kept me pushing all the time which required a bit of attitude adjustment. After many tries I finally finished scenario 21 in 58 turns. I'm not sure I could have managed without the new 60 turn limit and the level 4 Ice Fairy.
Oow! It is still too close. I actually installed to be able to pick up a Dwarvish Fighter on the scenario Hydra Cavern secretly (well, not anymore) on version 0.7.7. So keeping him alive will also help playing the last scenario (a chaotic Drake + the flame sword is also cool on the last battle.) although I have not tested the last battle with the Dwarf yet.
jearrr wrote:
10. What was your impression when you finished the campaign? (achievement, weariness, sadness, etc.)
Spoiler:
Hehe.. those were probably better reinforcements than elves from the northern Greenwood, weren't they? :smile: I am actually interested in how long you take to finish them all. A week, maybe?
charris wrote:Like recovering from an addiction. Now I have a life again.
Spoiler:
I am happy to hear it because no-one has mentioned it before.:smile:
Spoiler:
We appreciate the feedbacks and playing through the end. Now, I am going to think how to manage the transition.
Have a good one, jearrr and charris.:smile:
Fate of a Princess/feedback thread: "What is in own heart that is the most important, not who you are."
Drake Campaign: Brave Wings/feedback thread, Naga Campaign: Return of the Monster, Saurian Campaign: Across the Ocean
Northern Forces - now on 1.12 server

charris
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Post by charris » August 9th, 2010, 2:00 pm

SkyOne wrote:Thank you so much for feedbacks, jearrr and charris.
charris wrote:As others have pointed out, the transition between the two parts is a bit abrupt.
Thanks so much for the comments. These feedbacks made me clear to do something about the transition. I personally do not want either to kill Baldres and his lieutenants in the game (combat), and to make him side=2 or 3. I am thinking to add a couple of scenarios (maybe, three) which tells until he sweeps away Queen Melindë or Elen-Garil breaks in his keep. However, there will be still a transition in between the two parts because the time of part-2 is 37 years later of one in part-1. So it won't be easy to fill up the gap completely. So let me think and discuss with co-workers how we do, and creating the parts will take a while.
A scenario or two from Ameck's childhood might set the scene and bridge the gap. The challenge would be to pull them off without much in the way of fighting.
charris wrote:The time constraints kept me pushing all the time which required a bit of attitude adjustment. After many tries I finally finished scenario 21 in 58 turns. I'm not sure I could have managed without the new 60 turn limit and the level 4 Ice Fairy.
Oow! It is still too close. I actually installed to be able to pick up a Dwarvish Fighter on the scenario Hydra Cavern secretly (well, not anymore) on version 0.7.7. So keeping him alive will also help playing the last scenario (a chaotic Drake + the flame sword is also cool on the last battle.) although I have not tested the last battle with the Dwarf yet.
The level 4 Ice Fairies are almost too powerful. If they had been available earlier I might have had several and the scenario would have been too easy :D
Spoiler:
Thanks for the great campaign.

lukal
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Post by lukal » August 22nd, 2010, 9:35 am

The scenario Zlud's Last Stand is way to easy on the easy difficulty setting. I effectively start with a full castle of level 3's (Turuk, loyal dwarf, Turuk's daughter) and the only person I had to fight was the local orcs, who had barely anything (one castle full of level two vs my castle full of level 3's. The elvish queen churns out so may units that the AI builds a line from North to south on the edge of the Main castle. I can then slip as many units behind that line as I want and the AI cannot react fast enough. They need either units guarding the north or improved strategy.
Other wise a great campaign 10/10 should be mainlined.

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SkyOne
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Post by SkyOne » September 11th, 2010, 10:01 am

charris wrote:A scenario or two from Ameck's childhood might set the scene and bridge the gap. The challenge would be to pull them off without much in the way of fighting.
Thanks for a tip. Now we are working on it.:smile:
The plan so far is four more scenarios to fill up the transition. A childhood scenario will probably be one of them.
lukal wrote:The scenario Zlud's Last Stand is way to easy on the easy difficulty setting. I effectively start with a full castle of level 3's (Turuk, loyal dwarf, Turuk's daughter) and the only person I had to fight was the local orcs, who had barely anything (one castle full of level two vs my castle full of level 3's. The elvish queen churns out so may units that the AI builds a line from North to south on the edge of the Main castle. I can then slip as many units behind that line as I want and the AI cannot react fast enough. They need either units guarding the north or improved strategy.
Other wise a great campaign 10/10 should be mainlined.
Thank you, lukal.:smile:
I am going to adjust it on the next edition.
Fate of a Princess/feedback thread: "What is in own heart that is the most important, not who you are."
Drake Campaign: Brave Wings/feedback thread, Naga Campaign: Return of the Monster, Saurian Campaign: Across the Ocean
Northern Forces - now on 1.12 server

spir
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Post by spir » September 20th, 2010, 1:52 pm

Hello,

Currently playing Fate of a Princess, nearly finished. Globally, I just love this campaign. Have many things to say, but rather on the development thread. Some words about the Dragon Cave.

I have spent many hours playing with this scenario, several times, trying to find its logic. Maybe I simply overlook some thing or am unable to catch a relevant point. If so, please tell me (and the rest of the post is useless). Anyway, here is what I have found and how I see it.

Both ways (opened with the key) enable finding the sword, Vladnir (the alchemist drake) and the dragon's lair; via fighting either mermen or more spiders and see monsters. But, for a reason I cannot figure out, Ghidsaurs (the dragon) only shows when coming from the north -- even if Ameck is not physically present. This is strange, since Falci-Nyess (the drake Lord) said earlier the dragon ignores them: reason why they need Ameck to come with. And so, why doesn't it show when coming via the southern path? I would find coherent the ultimate goal to be bringing Ameck to the dragon's hall.

When taking the southern way, since the dragon does not show, I could explore its lair and find 2 not-petrified drake guards and a pair of houses. I went on exploring because nothing happened, following the path that actually leads (via mermen guards, see monsters and spiders) to the part we first discover when opening the northern door. I then noticed that it seems necessary to first kill the guards, and that way promote Vladnir to level 2, in order to pass the spiders. Found this point interesting and thought this may be done in purpose.
Even more relevant, since following this path did not help and solve the scenario, I imagined that Ameck had to be there, too, in the dragon's hall, together with the drakes. Then, I thought at the pair of villages in the hall: would the trick be, in fact, that we need to use Ameck's teleport ability? If the drakes take the villages, then Ameck can reach the hall; then the lava is no more obstacle.

Unfortunately, no. I was rather disappointed, when taking the northern way instead, to see that we can reach the hall and that just entering it lets the dragon appear and the scenario finish; e basta! (even without Ameck there, even if Vladnir is not delivered) Reason why I cannot catch the logic.

Below what I would propose:
* When choosing either way, there is some element, thing, or event telling an *attentive* player one is on the good or wrong path. So that the scenario can be won at first try, even in case of bad luck. This reason should be related to what happens later when expecting the Ghidsaurs to show; and at best related to some things said earlier by Falci-Nyess or Ameck.
* There should be some relation between the sword, the rest of the tale, and the Dragon (especially, why is it there, precisely? Dragon's have treasures...)
* Vladnir should be necessary, or at least highly useful, first to find the Dragon (he knows a secret path?), then, maybe, later in the tale. Possibly, an alternative or complementary element could be an ability of his, since Falci-Nyess tells us this guy has a real talent. Even better, this ability reaches real usefulness only on level 2, so we need to promote it, as said above.
* About mermen, I find strange to see them there in a cave scenario. Why not trolls? Or a scouting party of the evil orcs? The latter could have kept Vladnir alive to let him be later questioned by the orc leader. Also, southern orcs wanderng there in his cave (why? in search for the sword?) would be a reason for Guidsaurs to join the conflict.
* There may be one unavoidable troll or orc guarding Vladnir (Falci-Nyess must kill it); and a few more a bit farther, avoidable, but killing them brings Vladnir to level 2.
* I like the idea of guards we should not kill. (Drakes and the shyde can bypass them by flying over a "chasm" hex; a few other can pass without killing by not attacking, only replying.) Is all of this in purpose? Maybe they should be weak enough to be killed when trying to let more than one unit through; but only Ameck would have to pass, in addition to Falci-Nyess.
* And I like as well the fact only drakes can reach the Dragon Hall from the south, over the lava barrier. The same could be from the northern path; then, Ameck could reach the hall only via teleport...
* Finally, the choice at the end about next scenario is rather frustrating because (1) we have no information to properly choose & (2) there is no way to come back and change our mind (since the savefiles are erased by default after a win).

Denis
Denis
life is strange

various stuff about BfW (rules, stats, alternatives) and WML (parser, semantic schema, evolution)

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SkyOne
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Post by SkyOne » September 20th, 2010, 5:02 pm

spir wrote:Hello,

Currently playing Fate of a Princess, nearly finished. Globally, I just love this campaign. Have many things to say, but rather on the development thread. Some words about the Dragon Cave.

I have spent many hours playing with this scenario, several times, trying to find its logic. Maybe I simply overlook some thing or am unable to catch a relevant point. If so, please tell me (and the rest of the post is useless). Anyway, here is what I have found and how I see it.
Hi,

This scenario is actually not really logical. I mean the game does not follow the story or the theory much. I took the game-play more than the story on it. So you are pointing right things.
spir wrote:Both ways (opened with the key) enable finding the sword, Vladnir (the alchemist drake) and the dragon's lair; via fighting either mermen or more spiders and see monsters. But, for a reason I cannot figure out, Ghidsaurs (the dragon) only shows when coming from the north -- even if Ameck is not physically present. This is strange, since Falci-Nyess (the drake Lord) said earlier the dragon ignores them: reason why they need Ameck to come with. And so, why doesn't it show when coming via the southern path? I would find coherent the ultimate goal to be bringing Ameck to the dragon's hall.

When taking the southern way, since the dragon does not show, I could explore its lair and find 2 not-petrified drake guards and a pair of houses. I went on exploring because nothing happened, following the path that actually leads (via mermen guards, see monsters and spiders) to the part we first discover when opening the northern door. I then noticed that it seems necessary to first kill the guards, and that way promote Vladnir to level 2, in order to pass the spiders. Found this point interesting and thought this may be done in purpose.
In fact, this is not supposed to be on BfW 1.8. The "ai" changed a lot from 1.6 to 1.8. On 1.6, many Mermen come to reach the first keep themselves. That is supposed to let the players know it is a wrong way. However, on 1.8, the merman leader does not recruit many units until the side=1 units get close to him. So many players recently tried to defeat merman leader first, instead of using the northern path. It will be fixed, by the way. We have been working on it. Currently, just too many things we have to work on this campaign. (adding more scenarios, unit images, dialogues, testing, etc..)

Basically, players do not really have to defeat the merman leader on the scenario, but it does not work on that way now. On my set-up, teleported Ameck and Drakes are supposed to attack the mermen from the behind, and on their front, Fairies and Dwarves (+more) attack them if players want to defeat the merman leader.
spir wrote:Even more relevant, since following this path did not help and solve the scenario, I imagined that Ameck had to be there, too, in the dragon's hall, together with the drakes. Then, I thought at the pair of villages in the hall: would the trick be, in fact, that we need to use Ameck's teleport ability? If the drakes take the villages, then Ameck can reach the hall; then the lava is no more obstacle.

Unfortunately, no. I was rather disappointed, when taking the northern way instead, to see that we can reach the hall and that just entering it lets the dragon appear and the scenario finish; e basta! (even without Ameck there, even if Vladnir is not delivered) Reason why I cannot catch the logic.
Ameck used to be able to reach there on a way of what you say, but it made scenario too easy. So I just cut that off recently. She can still be there even players select the southern path by using the teleport, near by Triton and Poseidon.
Anyway, yes, Ameck should be Dragon's chamber when he appears.
spir wrote:* When choosing either way, there is some element, thing, or event telling an *attentive* player one is on the good or wrong path. So that the scenario can be won at first try, even in case of bad luck. This reason should be related to what happens later when expecting the Ghidsaurs to show; and at best related to some things said earlier by Falci-Nyess or Ameck.
* There should be some relation between the sword, the rest of the tale, and the Dragon (especially, why is it there, precisely? Dragon's have treasures...)
Yeah, you are right. As I said first, I took the game-play on this scenario. So the sword does not relate much to the cave or Dragon.
spir wrote:* Vladnir should be necessary, or at least highly useful, first to find the Dragon (he knows a secret path?), then, maybe, later in the tale. Possibly, an alternative or complementary element could be an ability of his, since Falci-Nyess tells us this guy has a real talent. Even better, this ability reaches real usefulness only on level 2, so we need to promote it, as said above.
Yeah, mich has mentioned it, too, long time ago. Let us think what we can change.

There was another choice that Slixxik was trapped by mermen. I put on the current way because a healer will be needed on one of the next scenarios, The Battle of Prestim, and Vlady could be close to Falci-Nyess more than Slixxik.
spir wrote:* About mermen, I find strange to see them there in a cave scenario. Why not trolls? Or a scouting party of the evil orcs? The latter could have kept Vladnir alive to let him be later questioned by the orc leader. Also, southern orcs wanderng there in his cave (why? in search for the sword?) would be a reason for Guidsaurs to join the conflict.
Nages were more approximate more than Mermen as the enemy on the scenario, but we had not used Mermen in the entire campaign. So I personally decided to use them. Trolls and Orcs are used enough times in the campaign, so I do not really like to use them in the scenario. The best is to create another race, such as cave Drake or something. I might do it in the future, but need more time to do. (Creating many units is in order on me currently even I am not an artist)
spir wrote:* There may be one unavoidable troll or orc guarding Vladnir (Falci-Nyess must kill it); and a few more a bit farther, avoidable, but killing them brings Vladnir to level 2.
This is a good idea. Sure, we will also work on it.:smile:
spir wrote:* I like the idea of guards we should not kill. (Drakes and the shyde can bypass them by flying over a "chasm" hex; a few other can pass without killing by not attacking, only replying.) Is all of this in purpose? Maybe they should be weak enough to be killed when trying to let more than one unit through; but only Ameck would have to pass, in addition to Falci-Nyess.
That is the point to use one of Ameck's equipped attacks.:wink:
It seems this one changes a lot for you on the sceanrio, doesn't it?
spir wrote:* And I like as well the fact only drakes can reach the Dragon Hall from the south, over the lava barrier. The same could be from the northern path; then, Ameck could reach the hall only via teleport...
The same as above.:smile:
spir wrote:* Finally, the choice at the end about next scenario is rather frustrating because (1) we have no information to properly choose & (2) there is no way to come back and change our mind (since the savefiles are erased by default after a win).
Aaa.. okay, we are going to put more informations on the selection, but either ways, the players are going to be "Zluld's Last Stand". The difference is to play one more scenario to get more golds or not.

Thank you for your feedback. You are not my cousin, are you? :smile: I have a cousin who has the same name as yours. He moved from Vancouver to Philippines for his job recently, though.


P.S. some sentences have been edited to correct English. There may be some more mistakes, though.
Fate of a Princess/feedback thread: "What is in own heart that is the most important, not who you are."
Drake Campaign: Brave Wings/feedback thread, Naga Campaign: Return of the Monster, Saurian Campaign: Across the Ocean
Northern Forces - now on 1.12 server

spir
Posts: 97
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Post by spir » September 21st, 2010, 7:21 am

SkyOne wrote: Hi,

This scenario is actually not really logical. I took the game-play more than the story on it. So you are pointing a right thing.
Right.

SkyOne wrote:
spir wrote: Both ways (opened with the key) enable finding the sword, Vladnir (the alchemist drake) and the dragon's lair [...] But, for a reason I cannot figure out, Ghidsaurs (the dragon) only shows when coming from the north -- even if Ameck is not physically present. This is strange, since Falci-Nyess (the drake Lord) said earlier the dragon ignores them: reason why they need Ameck to come with. And so, why doesn't it show when coming via the southern path? I would find coherent the ultimate goal to be bringing Ameck to the dragon's hall.
[...]
In fact, this is not supposed to be on BfW 1.8. The "ai" changed a lot from 1.6 to 1.8. On 1.6, many Mermen come to reach the first keep themselves. It is supposed to let the players know it is a wrong way. However, on 1.8, the merman leader does not recruit many units until the side=1 units get close to him. So many players recently tried to defeat merman leader first, instead of using the northern path. It will be fixed, by the way. [...]
Very good.
SkyOne wrote:
spir wrote: Even more relevant, since following this path did not help and solve the scenario, I imagined that Ameck had to be there, too, in the dragon's hall, together with the drakes. Then, I thought at the pair of villages in the hall: would the trick be, in fact, that we need to use Ameck's teleport ability? If the drakes take the villages, then Ameck can reach the hall; then the lava is no more obstacle.

Unfortunately, no. I was rather disappointed, when taking the northern way instead, to see that we can reach the hall and that just entering it lets the dragon appear and the scenario finish; e basta! (even without Ameck there, even if Vladnir is not delivered) Reason why I cannot catch the logic.
Ameck used to be able to reach there on a way of what you say, but it made scenario too easy. So I just cut that off recently. She can still be there even players select the southern path by using the teleport, near by Triton and Poseidon.
Anyway, yes, Ameck should be Dragon's chamber when he appears.
I don't know how it made the scenario too easy; anyway, some units need to reach the Dragon Lair in order to get the villages. I would enjoy this to be the point if there were some necessary steps on the way. For instance:
-1- find the key
-2- choose the right door
-3- find the sword
-4- deliver Vladnir (the alchemist)
-5- promote him
-6- finally reach the lair (wih both drakes)...
-7- ... and fight the guards to get one village in order to teleport Ameck
With some obstacles on the way such as monsters, unkillable guard, lava, etc.
SkyOne wrote:
spir wrote: * There should be some relation between the sword, the rest of the tale, and the Dragon (especially, why is it there, precisely? Dragon's have treasures...)
Yeah, you are right. As I said first, I took the game-play on this scenario. So the sword does not relate much to the cave or Dragon.
Could be a relevant element of the plot.
SkyOne wrote:
spir wrote: * Vladnir should be necessary [...]
Yeah, mich has mentioned it, too, long time ago. Let us think what we can change.
There was another choice that Slixxik was trapped by mermen. I put on the current way because a healer will be needed on one of the next scenarios, The Battle of Prestim, and Vlady could be close to Falci-Nyess more than Slixxik.
I did not need Vladim for The Battle of Prestim (killed early). I first did not note he both heals and regenerates; this a great point, would have made eliminating leaders easier. About healers, we have the white mage.
By the way, I take the opportunity to note big battles (esp. around cities) are usually not very interesting, also in this campaign. Just huge butcheries. Don't know how to change that.

For any reason, I like this character. I see him potentially like Elyssa (the red mage) in UtBS. Maybe he could be a kind of wandering searcher (searching what? mystery). In the previous scenario's dialogue, when Falcy-Nyess talks about the Dragon, there could be some mention about Vladnir. Perhaps he was sent to the dragon cave, or just went there, to look for the sword or meet the Dragon; he could have met Guidsaurs and be accepted by him (the only Drake). Then, since he does not show back, a second mission is necessary; this time they need Ameck.
We could meet him earlier (before reaching the other drakes), then from time to time.
[/quote]

SkyOne wrote:
spir wrote: * About mermen, I find strange to see them there in a cave scenario. Why not trolls? Or a scouting party of the evil orcs? The latter could have kept Vladnir alive to let him be later questioned by the orc leader. Also, southern orcs wanderng there in his cave (why? in search for the sword?) would be a reason for Guidsaurs to join the conflict.
Nages were better than Mermen on the scenario, but we haven't used Mermen in the entire campaign. So I personally decided to use them. Trolls and Orcs are used enough times in the campaign, so I do not like to use them in the scenario. The best is to create another race, such as cave Drake or something. I might do it in the future, but need more time to do. (Creating many units is in order on me currently even I am not an artist)
Well, as I see it, a campaign is not supposed to be a catalogue of all possible ennemies. (Actually, there could be one single campaign designed for that :wink:.)
On the opposite, fights against random ennemies here and there on the heroes' way is usually a big weakness of most campaign. I mean it weakens the story and the interest; deepening the exploration of fights against 1, 2, 3 races in various circumstances is more challenging.
In most major campaigns, one could easily remove one level out of three and have a better, more interesting and consistent, result (after some reworking of the story, indeed).

[side-note: there are 3 ways to improve anything designed: change, add, or remove some element. For any reason, the latter is rarely done. We think, probably, "more is better". This is very often wrong, also in campaign design.
Piling elements over elements, ennemies over ennemies, & scenarios over scenarios, is not designing a campaign... but you know it, dont you? :wink:]

SkyOne wrote:
spir wrote: * There may be one unavoidable troll or orc guarding Vladnir (Falci-Nyess must kill it); and a few more a bit farther, avoidable, but killing them brings Vladnir to level 2.
This is a good idea. Sure, we will also work on it.:smile:
:smile:

SkyOne wrote:
spir wrote: * I like the idea of guards we should not kill. (Drakes and the shyde can bypass them by flying over a "chasm" hex; a few other can pass without killing by not attacking, only replying.) Is all of this in purpose? Maybe they should be weak enough to be killed when trying to let more than one unit through; but only Ameck would have to pass, in addition to Falci-Nyess.
That is the point to use one of Ameck's equipped attacks.:wink:
It seems this one changes a lot for you on the sceanrio, doesn't it?
I missed it! I simply forgot and did not use even once the petrification attack, not even in the later battle Zluld last stand. I'll try to think at it in Dorest.

[...]
SkyOne wrote:
spir wrote: * Finally, the choice at the end about next scenario is rather frustrating because (1) we have no information to properly choose & (2) there is no way to come back and change our mind (since the savefiles are erased by default after a win).
Aaa.. okay, we are going to put more informations on the selection, but either ways, the players are going to be "Zluld's Last Stand". The difference is to play one more scenario to get more golds or not.
This is also actually a weakness of Wesnoth: one loses control in choice dialogues; when the players reaches it, which happens without warning, it's to late (no way to save, or go back one turn). Not only we may like to get some information, or explore a bit the various alternative before going back and taking a final choice, but also we may have some actions to do (such as leading units close to a promotion threshold) before finishing the level. In addition to the choice dialogue itself, another bug is we don't even have the final scenario stage (with the graphics greyed) where it's possible to save and/or go back.
One workaround could be an info text displayed a few turns earlier (in this case, when a side=1 unit passes by the petrified guards) telling there will be a choice, so it may be a good idea to save now. Actually, as you say, in this case it's not that important since it's just a bonus scenario; but I'm speaking more generally.

SkyOne wrote: Thank you for your feedback. You are not my cousin, are you? :smile: I have a cousin who has the same name as yours. He moved from Vancouver to Philippines for his job recently, though.
I'm not! "spir" is a pseudo.
By the way, where are you from? I'm used to read posts by non-english native speakers (like myself), but your english is rather original (still, it changed and improved much along the posts (I've both whole threads about the campaign)).

Denis
Denis
life is strange

various stuff about BfW (rules, stats, alternatives) and WML (parser, semantic schema, evolution)

spir
Posts: 97
Joined: September 15th, 2009, 9:31 am
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Re: Fate of a Princess

Post by spir » September 22nd, 2010, 8:17 am

1. What version of Battle for Wesnoth did you play?

1.8.4

2. What version of Fate of a Princess (or the scenario) did you play?

0.7.9

3. What difficulty level did you select to play the campaign? (easy/normal/hard)

normal

4. How difficult did you find the scenario or the campaign? (1-10)

for an intended intermediate level campaign, rather hard; say 8
In my opinion, FoaP tends to be an expert-level campaign (compare especially UtBS), partly for its innovations on unit types/races, gameplay, etc, partly for its tactical challenges, esp in the first part.
(possibly more on this topic in a separate post)

5. How clear did you find the objectives on the scenario or the campaign? (1-10)

Rather clear, except in the Dragon Cave scenario. Actually, the objective properly speaking is clear, but how to achieve it is not at all for me, and rather disappointing (see previous post).

6. What aspect of the campaign needs the most work? (dialog, unit images, etc.)

Dialog, as you know :wink:. The content (elements of the tale) is good, potentially very good. Only needs correction and style; also some more clarity, coherence, and connections between both parts, too (more on this later as well).
I would gladly start or participate to a french translation, if you like.

7. Which part of the campaign did you like? (part-1/part-2)

part 1 seems better worked out globally

8. How do you like the story on this campaign? (1-10)

see above, and another post to come

9. Do you have any additional comments?

Thank you very much! I globally highly enjoyed playing Foap.

10. What was your impression when you finished the campaign? (achievement, weariness, sadness, etc.)

a bit of various feelings -- satisfaction and "gladness" (correct?) dominate
Denis
life is strange

various stuff about BfW (rules, stats, alternatives) and WML (parser, semantic schema, evolution)

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