A Rough Life

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A Rough Life

Postby Jacques_Fol » May 20th, 2009, 4:33 pm

Caveat: constructive criticism and/or mere impressions are welcome, either to the campaign as a whole or to individual scenarios.

(1) Did you like the storyline of the campaign? If not, what would you propose changing?

(2) Did you enjoy the combat element of the campaign? Was there too little of it in relation to the text? What was the difficulty like (with reference to your chosen level)? What general changes would you propose to the combat/battles?

(3) Did you like the amount of mid-game conversations between the units? Was there enough or too much of it, or would you like to see more? (With specific examples if possible.)

(4) Were you annoyed by any of the "director's choices" in the campaign (notably, leveling Jacques and transforming him into different types)? If yes, what would you change?

(5) Which map(s) do you think would most need improving? (And let me know if you'd be willing to help.)

(6) How much do you think that this campaign would need or benefit from custom art?

(7) What other specific suggestions would you have that would make the campaign better and more fun (especially those that do not require too much work)?
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Re: A Rough Life

Postby Huston » May 22nd, 2009, 3:32 pm

i decided to play through your campaign and in the fifth scenario after defeating
Spoiler:
, nothing happened. in order to get to the next scenario i had to go into debug mode and skip to it. i have the latest version of Wesnoth's stable branch 1.6.2 and i updated my add-ons.

other than this i like the campaign. a little disappointed when
Spoiler:
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Re: A Rough Life

Postby Turuk » May 22nd, 2009, 3:35 pm

Huston wrote:i decided to play through your campaign and in the fifth scenario after defeating
Spoiler:
, nothing happened. in order to get to the next scenario i had to go into debug mode and skip to it. i have the latest version of Wesnoth's stable branch 1.6.2 and i updated my add-ons.


Huston, you killed one of the monsters, but did you kill the second?
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Re: A Rough Life

Postby Huston » May 22nd, 2009, 4:17 pm

i couldn't kill the second monster it didn't appear when i moved to where the woses told me to. so i went into the config file for that scenario a double checked that i had moved to the right spot and according to the file i did. but it didn't trigger. i'll go retry the scenario just to see if it happens again.

i went and retried it and the moveto event for side 1 moving to
Spoiler:
still didn't trigger. i don't really know why either.

EDIT: i finished the campaign i have to say. job well done. i liked the story behind it and all. just work out this one glitch in scenario 5 and your campaign should just need balancing. one other thing. i don't know why but when Jacques transforms for the last time whenever he attacks,defends or leads him sprite image disappears.
Last edited by Huston on May 23rd, 2009, 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Rough Life

Postby Turuk » May 22nd, 2009, 5:33 pm

Strange, maybe Jacques_Fol can figure out the issue. It was working previously, but some recent changes may have altered it.
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Re: A Rough Life

Postby Jacques_Fol » May 23rd, 2009, 10:21 am

Huston wrote:i couldn't kill the second monster it didn't appear when i moved to where the woses told me to. so i went into the config file for that scenario a double checked that i had moved to the right spot and according to the file i did. but it didn't trigger. i'll go retry the scenario just to see if it happens again.

i went and retried it and the moveto event for side 1 moving to
Spoiler:
still didn't trigger. i don't really know why either.

EDIT: i finished the campaign i have to say. job well done. i liked the story behind it and all. just work out this one glitch in scenario 5 and your campaign should just need balancing. one other thing. i don't know why but when Jacques transforms for the last time whenever he attacks,defends or leads him sprite image disappears.
Huston, many thanks for your feedback.

Regarding the "second monster not appearing" bug, you were right and thanks for spotting it.
Spoiler:
I have then also tried amending the frame issue for the last iteration of Jacques, changing the path to the images. Hope it works for everybody now. Accordingly, version 1.0.2 has been uploaded to the Add-ons server.

And many thanks for the kind words. If you get any ideas regarding balancing, they will be most welcome - but as it is, you've already helped a lot! Hope I get to return the favor with RDtDA (actually, I hope I don't, ie that everything works well).
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Re: A Rough Life

Postby Huston » May 23rd, 2009, 10:12 pm

i just realized i forgot to tell you about a small issue with your 14th scenario.

scenario 14_changing_destiny you have it set in the config file to make a new unit named Kyoko instead of having it recall her from the previous scenarios. so when someone goes into their recall list they end up with 2 Kyoko units on their side. which means that if either one died the die event will be triggered. oh and in order to give jacques traits, ie. strong/intelligent/resilient/quick just put a modifications clause under the name=_ "Jacques" in the side info in you very first scenario
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Re: A Rough Life

Postby Jacques_Fol » May 24th, 2009, 7:02 am

Huston wrote:i just realized i forgot to tell you about a small issue with your 14th scenario.

scenario 14_changing_destiny you have it set in the config file to make a new unit named Kyoko instead of having it recall her from the previous scenarios. so when someone goes into their recall list they end up with 2 Kyoko units on their side. which means that if either one died the die event will be triggered.
Thanks, duly fixed and ver. 1.0.3 uploaded to the server (may have wanted to have Kyoko in her final glory by that scenario and thus included her with the [unit] command, but then should have "killed" the original, and yet there's no reason to so normal recall was used).
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Re: A Rough Life

Postby Cimeries » June 27th, 2009, 9:35 pm

1. I actually have enjoyed it, even though I prefer darker, more serious, or more realistic themes with less cliches like princesses, kings, and the like. So far (I'm in the temple, currently) I've been enjoying this, although there were parts I didn't like, or thought were odd (but I can't recall any, how frustrating. :?)
I liked the story about the cave dwellers, though it seemed somewhat irrational to me.
Oh, now I remember one more thing, at the end of the third scenario, where you hunt the monsters for the first time, the orc captain is not very engaging as a character and I didn't think much of him. Shortly after, when he was killed and Jacques mourned for him, I though it was odd to mourn for someone you barely knew. Even if he took a hit for him. If you want to invoke emotions in the player you have to make the orc captain more engaging so that people notice him and think of him as a character rather than a unit.
...
And another, the princesses' name doesn't fit, in my opinion. It sounds Asian, or otherwise too cute and silly.

2. Combat was very fun and challenging just in the right amount. (I'm playing on Easy, but I'm fairly new to Wesnoth.)

The saurian augurs move extremely well in the sand while most other units don't. That added with the fact that most foes I've encountered so far had no meaningful ranged capability made me chose augurs as the bulk of my force.

One thing I noticed is that the two special monsters don't actually attack me when it's their turn. I beat the one in the mountains simply by stationing a pair of Oracles in front of it and have them blast it with magic for a few turns.
The other one didn't actively fight me either.

The constantly spawning waves of scorpions were a good way to keep me on guard and not get too comfortable.

On that same map, the orc grunt that joined Jacques's team in the beginning died, but when I was about to fight the mage in his dragon form, he reappeared, albeit with no experience and no name. He then disappeared again on the next scenario.

3. I think it is fine the way it is now.

4. I was, actually. I was hoping to keep playing in the rogue tree as I like to use the backstab ability. Another thing is that I played through the first scenario very well and managed to get Jacques promoted and most of the brutes intact and with high experience. It was a little frustrating when I discovered that I've wasted my time fighting those extra 8 or so turns and I could simply throw myself at the enemy once I've reached the winning threshold.
Maybe you could allow the player to chose his path, or better yet, change the player's class according to his actions, if this is something you are willing to consider.

6. Custom art would be great, though certainly not necessary. The only character whose art I think really needs a change is Jacques's, it doesn't fit with the others and he look like a common crook, not heroic at all. Unless that's intentional. :P

I'll probably have more to say as I play more of it.
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Re: A Rough Life

Postby Jacques_Fol » June 28th, 2009, 4:23 pm

Thank you for these valuable comments, Cimeries, and for taking the time to write them. They are most appreciated.
Cimeries wrote:1. I actually have enjoyed it, even though I prefer darker, more serious, or more realistic themes with less cliches like princesses, kings, and the like. So far (I'm in the temple, currently) I've been enjoying this, although there were parts I didn't like, or thought were odd (but I can't recall any, how frustrating. :?)
I liked the story about the cave dwellers, though it seemed somewhat irrational to me.
Useful thoughts (memory lapse notwithstanding ;)). You're right that I didn't quite manage (or intend) to avoid cliches, although I did try to make it a fairytale with a realistic twist. This "twist" becomes more obvious towards the end(s), so I hope you persevere and let me know what you think at the end of it all.
Cimeries wrote:Oh, now I remember one more thing, at the end of the third scenario, where you hunt the monsters for the first time, the orc captain is not very engaging as a character and I didn't think much of him. Shortly after, when he was killed and Jacques mourned for him, I though it was odd to mourn for someone you barely knew. Even if he took a hit for him. If you want to invoke emotions in the player you have to make the orc captain more engaging so that people notice him and think of him as a character rather than a unit.
Noted and you may be right. Rather than make the captain more appealing, though, I guess I should just make Jacques mourn him a bit less.
Cimeries wrote:And another, the princesses' name doesn't fit, in my opinion. It sounds Asian, or otherwise too cute and silly.
I actually agree, the name doesn't sit too well with me either. In fact, several don't, notably King Bombasan and Jacques, while I do like Luxor, Arbor and Ruphulus. Anyway, the initial idea was to convey that Jacques was taken a long way from home, and him having a French name with Kyoko having a more Far-Eastern twist was supposed to convey the distance travelled. You may in fact be all the more reinforced in your critique when you see the mapping silliness in scenario 11, but that's also part of the reason that the name is not easily changed. For the time being, let's just call it catering to all age and silliness brackets on the playing side...
Cimeries wrote:2. Combat was very fun and challenging just in the right amount. (I'm playing on Easy, but I'm fairly new to Wesnoth.)

The saurian augurs move extremely well in the sand while most other units don't. That added with the fact that most foes I've encountered so far had no meaningful ranged capability made me chose augurs as the bulk of my force.

One thing I noticed is that the two special monsters don't actually attack me when it's their turn. I beat the one in the mountains simply by stationing a pair of Oracles in front of it and have them blast it with magic for a few turns.
The other one didn't actively fight me either.

The constantly spawning waves of scorpions were a good way to keep me on guard and not get too comfortable.
Glad you liked the combat generally, as I felt that that was one of my weaker spots. Still, you are right that saurians are almost too appealing a choice.
Cimeries wrote:On that same map, the orc grunt that joined Jacques's team in the beginning died, but when I was about to fight the mage in his dragon form, he reappeared, albeit with no experience and no name. He then disappeared again on the next scenario.
That isn't supposed to be Karl, then, but a "random" grunt, the idea being that Jacques needs a set of companions when confronting the traitor and if his loyal units are not available, replacement units are called to accompany him.
Cimeries wrote:4. I was, actually. I was hoping to keep playing in the rogue tree as I like to use the backstab ability. Another thing is that I played through the first scenario very well and managed to get Jacques promoted and most of the brutes intact and with high experience. It was a little frustrating when I discovered that I've wasted my time fighting those extra 8 or so turns and I could simply throw myself at the enemy once I've reached the winning threshold.
Maybe you could allow the player to chose his path, or better yet, change the player's class according to his actions, if this is something you are willing to consider.
I'm not sure how easy keeping several paths would be. You may also find that some endings prefer Jacques to be what he becomes in his final transformation. All told, I may reconsider not resetting him back to L1 thief in scenario 2 and/or perhaps increasing the qualities of his later incarnations so players don't feel "cheated" out of something they would prefer. I may also give some more warning tips as to what happens at the end of scenario 1.
Cimeries wrote:6. Custom art would be great, though certainly not necessary. The only character whose art I think really needs a change is Jacques's, it doesn't fit with the others and he look like a common crook, not heroic at all. Unless that's intentional. :P
I completely agree, with the addition that Kyoko would also benefit from having her own unique portrait. I am on the lookout for able and willing artists and will, with some luck, eventually be able to spruce the art aspect up a bit.
Cimeries wrote:I'll probably have more to say as I play more of it.
Great, looking forward to it.
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Re: A Rough Life

Postby Huston » June 30th, 2009, 4:54 am

Jacques_Fol wrote:
Cimeries wrote:2. Combat was very fun and challenging just in the right amount. (I'm playing on Easy, but I'm fairly new to Wesnoth.)

The saurian augurs move extremely well in the sand while most other units don't. That added with the fact that most foes I've encountered so far had no meaningful ranged capability made me chose augurs as the bulk of my force.

One thing I noticed is that the two special monsters don't actually attack me when it's their turn. I beat the one in the mountains simply by stationing a pair of Oracles in front of it and have them blast it with magic for a few turns.
The other one didn't actively fight me either.

The constantly spawning waves of scorpions were a good way to keep me on guard and not get too comfortable.
Glad you liked the combat generally, as I felt that that was one of my weaker spots. Still, you are right that saurians are almost too appealing a choice.

since they are more powerful because of their quicker movement. just add their config file to your unit folder, modify the id a little so that it doesn't interfere with the game's core saurians and cut their movement points.

Jacques_Fol wrote:
Cimeries wrote:4. I was, actually. I was hoping to keep playing in the rogue tree as I like to use the backstab ability. Another thing is that I played through the first scenario very well and managed to get Jacques promoted and most of the brutes intact and with high experience. It was a little frustrating when I discovered that I've wasted my time fighting those extra 8 or so turns and I could simply throw myself at the enemy once I've reached the winning threshold.
Maybe you could allow the player to chose his path, or better yet, change the player's class according to his actions, if this is something you are willing to consider.
I'm not sure how easy keeping several paths would be. You may also find that some endings prefer Jacques to be what he becomes in his final transformation. All told, I may reconsider not resetting him back to L1 thief in scenario 2 and/or perhaps increasing the qualities of his later incarnations so players don't feel "cheated" out of something they would prefer. I may also give some more warning tips as to what happens at the end of scenario 1.


it wouldn't be too difficult to do with some variables. pm me if you want me to give you an example.
as for the backstab ability. i thin jacques should keep that no matter what he turns into on his melee attack because fighting unfair has kept him alive so far, what incentive does he have to start fighting fair all of a sudden?
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Re: A Rough Life

Postby Jacques_Fol » July 6th, 2009, 6:27 pm

Thanks for the comments, Huston, and sorry for not getting to them sooner.
Huston wrote:since they are more powerful because of their quicker movement. just add their config file to your unit folder, modify the id a little so that it doesn't interfere with the game's core saurians and cut their movement points
This would probably even the field out a bit but I kind of like having at least one type of units that can actually move across the sands rapidly. Plus, keeping saurians in their original form would avoid "annoying" the player too much, especially with the transformations of Jacques already springing up as a bit of a surprise. Speaking of which and the possibility of him having different paths...
Huston wrote:it wouldn't be too difficult to do with some variables. pm me if you want me to give you an example.
as for the backstab ability. i thin jacques should keep that no matter what he turns into on his melee attack because fighting unfair has kept him alive so far, what incentive does he have to start fighting fair all of a sudden?
I'm not sure about the different paths, would have to think about it (primarily because I'm afraid that it might involve too much programming hassle, although the idea of being able to choose radically different development paths would be appealing, storywise) - if an example of using variables to achieve it would not be too difficult, I'd be grateful for it, and maybe others could use it, too.

In any event, though, I kind of like the idea of at least keeping the backstab ability. In the next revision of the campaign, I will definitely try to include it (will require a little research to enquire as to how to actually add it to the attack roster, but I suppose nothing insurmountable). Thanks!
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Re: A Rough Life

Postby Huston » July 6th, 2009, 7:02 pm

Jacques_Fol wrote:In any event, though, I kind of like the idea of at least keeping the backstab ability. In the next revision of the campaign, I will definitely try to include it (will require a little research to enquire as to how to actually add it to the attack roster, but I suppose nothing insurmountable). Thanks!

to do this just make a modified version of the unit, modify it's id a little from mainline's version and add the [specials] tag inside of the attack tag and inside of the [specials] tag just put any specials you want that attack to have.

i'll give you an example of the multiple paths as soon as i get a chance.
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Re: A Rough Life

Postby Jacques_Fol » July 10th, 2009, 8:42 pm

Huston wrote:to do this just make a modified version of the unit, modify it's id a little from mainline's version and add the [specials] tag inside of the attack tag and inside of the [specials] tag just put any specials you want that attack to have.

i'll give you an example of the multiple paths as soon as i get a chance.
Huston, many thanks for the kind offers of help. After having thought about it, I sort of like the idea of keeping the transformations as they are since they form an integral part of the story, so at least for the time being I won't be implementing multiple paths. However, I implemented the idea to keep backstab, as outlined in this post - it's hard to gauge how much one should adjust the attacks for backstab, but I hope I'm more or less there.
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Re: A Rough Life

Postby xbriannova » September 6th, 2009, 9:33 am

Hey Jacques_Fol, I was almost able to complete your campaign except for one problem that exists in the final battle against Ruphulus.

The map was far too big and to search through the entire map would take ages. By the time I do so, it became too late to do whatever I should have done, and I couldn't reload an old autosave file because it was too far back. Now I'd have to replay the entire scenario again...

I don't know if its the right way to do it but, would you want to split that final scenario up into multiple chunks so as to avoid this sort of frustration?
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