The Rising Underworld

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daud2001
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Re: The Rising Underworld

Post by daud2001 » August 17th, 2018, 12:40 am

Nice campaign (playing v1.2.4 on Wesnoth 1.14.3). I like the text/dialogue, it makes some plot elements more believable. Like "Many times they suffered what seemed to be a critical loss, but somehow Wesnoth endured." from The Council of War, helps me believe Weldyn isn't destroyed by the time everybody come back from travelling the world. And the variative scenarios are just amazing.

Scenario I struggled with:
- Demon Glac. Likely because I had poor recalls.
- Demon Zeph. While I could beat the main enemy forces, it took too much time and my troops were left weakened. I barely won on turn 34 by luck. Then I realized I should have recruited more Steelclads and put Hyrdmar closer to everybody else, so I replayed it, and the scenario is easier (but still challenging).
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Samonella
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Re: The Rising Underworld

Post by Samonella » August 18th, 2018, 8:24 pm

daud2001 wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 12:40 am
Nice campaign (playing v1.2.4 on Wesnoth 1.14.3). I like the text/dialogue, it makes some plot elements more believable. Like "Many times they suffered what seemed to be a critical loss, but somehow Wesnoth endured." from The Council of War, helps me believe Weldyn isn't destroyed by the time everybody come back from travelling the world. And the variative scenarios are just amazing.
Awesome, glad you liked it!

daud2001 wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 12:40 am
Scenario I struggled with:
- Demon Glac. Likely because I had poor recalls.
:/ Yeah, the price difference between recruiting and recalling is huge.
The last few months have been nothing but one big, painful reminder that TIMTLTW.

Creator of Armory Mod, The Rising Underworld, and Voyage of a Drake: an RPG

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ResExsention
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Re: The Rising Underworld

Post by ResExsention » August 18th, 2018, 8:46 pm

I noticed. Is it really impossible to beat Glac with fresh recruits? I hate recalling experienced units for fear of losing them. The only way I beat that was by going debug and messing around with the stuff LOL. And even if I had used my best troops, they still probably would've been mostly killed because of all the lichs Glac has. I hate Drains.
I am a ranger and my WML knives will implant themselves in your back.

Creator of the abandoned campaign Royalties Forgotten and the work in progress campaign Purger of Evil.
Maintainer of Fate of a Princess.

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Samonella
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Re: The Rising Underworld

Post by Samonella » August 18th, 2018, 8:57 pm

ResExsention wrote:
August 18th, 2018, 8:46 pm
I noticed. Is it really impossible to beat Glac with fresh recruits? I hate recalling experienced units for fear of losing them. The only way I beat that was by going debug and messing around with the stuff LOL. And even if I had used my best troops, they still probably would've been mostly killed because of all the lichs Glac has. I hate Drains.
Glac is the winter one with ghosts, if there were lots of liches you probably mean Sicc, the desert one? Glac isn't too hard if you have veterans; the ghosts deal plenty of damage, but they go down really fast against sorceresses (or even archers). As for sicc, you aren't even allowed to get fresh recruits, the idea is that the river defense scenario fed you tons of XP so you have a good selection of level 3s.

Also, those scenarios all note in the objectives that they're the last time you'll use that army (or it's a bug if they don't) so you shouldn't be worried about losing veterans.
The last few months have been nothing but one big, painful reminder that TIMTLTW.

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ResExsention
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Re: The Rising Underworld

Post by ResExsention » August 18th, 2018, 9:12 pm

Well, the last time I played this campaign was quite a while ago, so I kind of forgot. The way I beat Glac was by holding off the ghosts and shadows and wraiths with my sorceresses while bringing the dragon all the way around to burn up the enemy leader. Very effective.

As for Sicc, even if I had fifty Mages of Light I probably wouldn't have used any of them and instead recalled my worst units. I've very conscious about what's in my recall list, and I hate losing powerful people.
I am a ranger and my WML knives will implant themselves in your back.

Creator of the abandoned campaign Royalties Forgotten and the work in progress campaign Purger of Evil.
Maintainer of Fate of a Princess.

denispir
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Re: The Rising Underworld

Post by denispir » January 1st, 2019, 11:36 am

Right, I like the campaign (which has only 1 difficulty level, right?) very much up to now but do not really understand the scenario Northern Alliance, at the gates of Knalga. I "won" eventually, but not in good circumstances, which lets me doubt:
  • that I did it right and/or everything happened as expected, and
  • that I can just go on playing the campaign so.
I had 3 attempts:
  • Initially, I intended to kill the western ennemy, failed, but killed the southern one. My "scout" (a fencer) reached Dwarven Doors and the dwarves endly popped out... late as you know. At that time, turn 12 IIRC, both fronts were in not-so-good state so that the free reinforcements of my ennemies let me stop the damage there and retry.
  • That time, I sent a rider to the dwarves to spare 1 turn, hoping, foolishly as you know?, for earlier reinforcement on my side. I also played a little more prudently, killed again the southern leader, but was still unable to overcome the western ennemy. This is when I noticed that all 3 ennemies have huge free income since the beginning, allowing them to basically recruit constantly about 2 units I guess. This means that we must kill at least 3 of them each turn on every front... (a reflexion that comes to my mind now only and explains why the following attempt was doomed). Also, the dwarves never showed their funny faces, because the horseman I sent was human and, I had not noticed that "detail", the scout must not knock at the door, but on it, I mean standing on it, and it's a mountain hex !
  • Finally, this time sending a fresh-bought elvish rider, I played quite defensively but things went not better. Indeed, I still killed the southern leader, initially had less losses, but for the worse later whith evergrowing ennemy reinforcement. Certainly a bad strategy to play defensively with the ennemies' constant income! I still managed to save all "heroes" until the end, thus "won", after 3 attempts on the last turn (20) : first the bodyguard died, then Konrad Reginald, endly Delfador the level 5 mage finished with 3 HP.
And, main reason of my writing: the dwarves never ever engaged the battle. I first suspected a bad joke of yours, but then they suddenly were allies at the next level : quite contradictory, no? First, they let us all elves & humans die before their eyes, then they are supposed allies... hum!

Anyway, I also suspect that my greatly vanished recall list is not enough not go on playing anyway: I have 4 shydes (all 5-6 enchantresses, my favorite unit line, are dead), plus 1 avenger, 1 halberdier, 1 master bowman. Indeed, all units engaged in this butchery battle climbed to level 3, even the couple initial level 1's. I mean, the few who survived did level twice in a single scenario! Nice to have the mermen and now also the free dwarves, but am I supposed to have lost 2/3 of my previous recall list? And have such a disbalanced one now? Checked: I had 21 elves & humans at the start of the scenario, indeed forming a balanced company.

PS: I guessed to notice that the recall list was automaGically shrinked in some previous scenario. This seems confirmed by the fact that only 4 mermen remain, while I certainly had twice as many before (I lost few at the Ford of Abez, 1 by the lich jumping out of its castle).

Note: Ennemy reinforcements (and big income?) should be justified by the story. Easy in this case: not only (slow) undeads, but also (quicker) orcs track us previously. Scouts and the army's rear guard often see groups of orcs, of which they never know whether they are local dwellers probably loyal to Black Eye, or instead ennemies banded with the Lich Lord.

Note: Does anyone know where Wesnoth data are now located under Linux systems? I mean, up to 1.12 they were in:
  • /home/spir/.local/share/wesnoth/1.12/saves
  • /home/spir/.local/share/wesnoth/1.12/data/add-ons
Now, I cannot find them anymore. I wanted to watch the scenario to see whether it is intended that dwarves only watch us all dying... Thanks!

denispir
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Re: The Rising Underworld

Post by denispir » January 1st, 2019, 12:18 pm

I just note that you say that the campaign is unbalanced and feedback is welcome. It is indicated for intermediate players, unlike 3 Sisters and Magicians which are given for experts if I remember well. If the only present difficulty is supposed to be medium, then I would say the first 4 scenarios (up to Northern Alliance excluded) are well balanced. Quite fun, rather challenging in the sense of requiring tactic and attention, not annoying. All this for a standard player like me, not novice indeed, but also not talented or expert.

Actually, you could make them slightly more difficult, especially the Ford of Abez, because:
  • The ennemies fight one another.
  • We have enough mermen to deal with water monsters and later pests (and our strong loyals are already there to help).
  • We only need Reginald to reach the northern map border (no bother if there remains ennemies, they are for our other units to play with and gain XP ;)).
I would just, for instance, add a few villages on each ennemy side, to provide a couple coins more income, which would add some more "solid-ground" units every n turns (the villages may also cause units avoiding death in their initial 2-side battle). Please do not increase the challenge in water instead.
When I played, a merman killed the lich but I failed to assassinate the orc leader by lack of time (actually, Reginald was engaged on that side when I saw the turn limit! he had just enough movement to reach the border...). This to show that, with our big money and recall list where there are level 2's already (or even better nearly), the fight is rather easy (on ground).

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Samonella
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Re: The Rising Underworld

Post by Samonella » January 1st, 2019, 5:57 pm

denispir wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 11:36 am
Also, the dwarves never showed their funny faces, because the horseman I sent was human and, I had not noticed that "detail", the scout must not knock at the door, but on it, I mean standing on it, and it's a mountain hex !
That's a good point, I'll change the terrain to hills.

denispir wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 11:36 am
And, main reason of my writing: the dwarves never ever engaged the battle. I first suspected a bad joke of yours, but then they suddenly were allies at the next level : quite contradictory, no? First, they let us all elves & humans die before their eyes, then they are supposed allies... hum!
They are supposed to arrive in time to help against the big wave of reinforcements. The best strategy is to recruit/recall an elvish rider on your first turn to immediately send to the door. However, now that I think of it, even then they arrive at the battle field about a turn after the orc's big wave of reinforcements does. I'll change terrains or move the door so that a quick elvish rider can get to it one turn earlier.

denispir wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 11:36 am
Finally, this time sending a fresh-bought elvish rider, I played quite defensively but things went not better. Indeed, I still killed the southern leader, initially had less losses, but for the worse later whith evergrowing ennemy reinforcement. Certainly a bad strategy to play defensively with the ennemies' constant income! I still managed to save all "heroes" until the end, thus "won", after 3 attempts on the last turn (20) : first the bodyguard died, then Konrad Reginald, endly Delfador the level 5 mage finished with 3 HP.
This is how I always play it and how it's intended to be played. It's hard to kill more than one enemy leader with all their reinforcements, so you have to defend all the villages around your castle.

You are not the first person to say this scenario was too hard, so I guess I need to give the orcs a little less reinforcements. Letting the dwarves help sooner should be an improvement too.

denispir wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 11:36 am
Anyway, I also suspect that my greatly vanished recall list is not enough not go on playing anyway:
Yeah, I usually have more human/elf veterans after that scenario than before.

denispir wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 11:36 am
PS: I guessed to notice that the recall list was automaGically shrinked in some previous scenario. This seems confirmed by the fact that only 4 mermen remain, while I certainly had twice as many before (I lost few at the Ford of Abez, 1 by the lich jumping out of its castle).
You mean that some recall units disappeared without dying? That's not supposed to happen. :hmm:

denispir wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 11:36 am
Note: Does anyone know where Wesnoth data are now located under Linux systems?
On the main menu, there is a little button with an "i" in the bottom left corner which brings up a menu to show your userdata folder.

denispir wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 12:18 pm
I would say the first 4 scenarios (up to Northern Alliance excluded) are well balanced.
Glad to hear!

denispir wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 12:18 pm
Actually, you could make them slightly more difficult, especially the Ford of Abez
. . .
I would just, for instance, add a few villages on each ennemy side, to provide a couple coins more income, which would add some more "solid-ground" units every n turns (the villages may also cause units avoiding death in their initial 2-side battle). Please do not increase the challenge in water instead.
This is good advice, I'll do that.

Thank you very much for your feedback! :D
The last few months have been nothing but one big, painful reminder that TIMTLTW.

Creator of Armory Mod, The Rising Underworld, and Voyage of a Drake: an RPG

denispir
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Re: The Rising Underworld

Post by denispir » January 2nd, 2019, 6:37 am

Samonella wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 5:57 pm
denispir wrote:
January 1st, 2019, 11:36 am
And, main reason of my writing: the dwarves never ever engaged the battle. I first suspected a bad joke of yours, but then they suddenly were allies at the next level : quite contradictory, no? First, they let us all elves & humans die before their eyes, then they are supposed allies... hum!
They are supposed to arrive in time to help against the big wave of reinforcements. The best strategy is to recruit/recall an elvish rider on your first turn to immediately send to the door. However, now that I think of it, even then they arrive at the battle field about a turn after the orc's big wave of reinforcements does. I'll change terrains or move the door so that a quick elvish rider can get to it one turn earlier.
I Was not clear enough. Actually, dwarves [ido][/i] show up, I mean they do pop out of Knalga. But they just stand still there in front of the cave entry, never engaging the battle! nore doing anything else for the matter. They actually just watch us elves and humans dying, as I said. Which explains, since your reply seems to imply that this bad joke is not intended:
  • My story incomprehension that dwarves become allies instead of ennemies in the next scenario.
  • Part of my too big losses (exactly 2/3 of my recall list, all level 3 as explained above), since I fought alone till the very end (1 or 2 dwarves for a few turns on the W front, and their leader would be dead).
Too bad I have no replay, you'd see the horrible butchery. As said, level 1 units climbed to level 3 in this single scenario of only 20 turns!

Another point is: why is the cave entry sooo desperately faaar? An elvish rider (non-quick, speed=11) placed on the closest keep hex needs 3 full turns to be AT the gate, plus 1 more to stand ON it and knock. But this is not the main issue. This real one is that this makes the battle front at about 40 hexes from the gate. Thus, dwarves, if ever they deign move their inflated asses, won't be able to help in less than 10 turns! (8 for quick ones) Since I guess their apparition and major ennemy reinforcements happen at about turn 12...

For a more captivating story and interesting battle scenario, I would suggest:
  • Far closer cave gate: as you say reachable in 1 turn for an elvish rider, say 10 hexes. This makes dwarves able to help i 4-5 turns after they show up.
  • Choose an appropriate turn (or delay after the scout knocks at the gate), keeping the funny dialogues and suspense as they are.
  • Let them rush only on the turn after their showing up (more suspense for the player on 1st play).
  • Whenever they enter the range of an orc, have a (funny?) dialogue with their leader(s), about reinforcement, and have them recruit full castle at once.
  • Since dwarves are a new race, I would consider having the main ennemy joke about that and also recruit a new race: say these pesty ghosts or bats, since they are allied with undead.
This indeed would require balancing (I'm voluntary for medium difficulty, and hints at easy).

What do you think? What do other players think?

This nevertheless does not explain at all why dwarves stood still in my case. I suspected, after reflexion, that my scout should have stayed there waiting instead of joining the battle. But why, storywise? We do hear the dwarves chat, run, etc... They do show up and see us fighting, they do speak about the battle. Thus, it is storywise unexplanable that they remain inactive, whether or not my scout rushed to help his companions: he (the scout) cannot do more than knocking anyway...
Thank you very much for your feedback! :D
Thank you for your reply and your great work altogether!

denispir
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Re: The Rising Underworld

Post by denispir » January 2nd, 2019, 6:13 pm

Read the scenario to understand better. It just didn't pop up to my mind that dwarves do not form a side of their own, but come to fight under our leader's banner! ...

Now, I've had another idea: the possible ghosts and bats arriving as ennemy reinforcement may be the fastest of the undead chasing us (indeed, those pests are fast). What do you think?

Finally, it seems to me that your logic about dwarves, as well as about protecting Dyslegdush, both are pretty complicated for no big advantage. I would help you on that if I new WML better, but's sooo incredibly complex and incoherent, and there sooo many details to know by heart (which I'm totally unable to do), that I have abandoned everytime I tried. (I may retry one day because I found the WML learning campaign by Beetlenaut/)

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Samonella
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Re: The Rising Underworld

Post by Samonella » January 2nd, 2019, 11:38 pm

denispir wrote:
January 2nd, 2019, 6:37 am
Another point is: why is the cave entry sooo desperately faaar?
I agree, like I mentioned earlier I think I'll change the terrain and/or distance so an elvish rider can reach it in one turn less.
denispir wrote:
January 2nd, 2019, 6:37 am
Whenever they enter the range of an orc, have a (funny?) dialogue with their leader(s), about reinforcement, and have them recruit full castle at once.
So the extra orcs don't arrive until the dwarves are ready to help? That's a good idea but I think it would take too much work to be worth it, it's better to make a small adjustment to the current setup.
denispir wrote:
January 2nd, 2019, 6:13 pm
Now, I've had another idea: the possible ghosts and bats arriving as ennemy reinforcement may be the fastest of the undead chasing us (indeed, those pests are fast). What do you think?
That's an interesting idea. Actually, these orcs aren't allied with the undead though. They split off from the great horde and are hostile to the humans and elves, but the undead would still attack them too.
denispir wrote:
January 2nd, 2019, 6:13 pm
Finally, it seems to me that your logic about dwarves, as well as about protecting Dyslegdush, both are pretty complicated for no big advantage. I would help you on that if I new WML better, but's sooo incredibly complex and incoherent, and there sooo many details to know by heart
The code is pretty disorganized which makes it seem complicated, but really all that happens is that the orcs get extra gold when they have few units left, so it's hard to drive them back and get to the leaders. The dwarves are might seem complicated because I have to make sure they come out even if you win without ever reaching the door, but usually all that matters there is that they show up a few turns after you move to the door.
The last few months have been nothing but one big, painful reminder that TIMTLTW.

Creator of Armory Mod, The Rising Underworld, and Voyage of a Drake: an RPG

denispir
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Re: The Rising Underworld

Post by denispir » January 7th, 2019, 7:55 pm

There may be a bug in Northern Alliance, about Ferok killing Dysleguth: the var called test_x is then tested under the name text_x (spotted it?). This is probably why upon victory I did not properly see Dysleguth be "decapitated" as you write in the source, but indeed heard it ;) and attended to the consequences :).

PS (just to avoid double posting): I have modified map and scenario to have the cave gate closer, as talked in previous posts. Seems to work up to dwarves joining, but need to test further before proposing it to you if you like.

I intend to try various other modifs, firstly just for fun, but I would send them to you if interested:
  • Recode the dwarf sequence in a clear way (with vars) albeit with same or similar logic.
  • Recode the murder of Dysleguth, firstly by having him run back to keep ifever he moved.
  • Use block-of-code macros everywhere to reveal the code structure & logic.
  • Have the dwarf sequence start at turn n (4-5) if gate not knocked, by a dwarf popping out to watch.
  • Make dwarf allies 2 sides, one (with gurd boss) fighting NW orks, the other (with the lord) SE.
  • Dwarves may still join Reginald at the end since it seems good for the story (yet another "Free People"), but then there would be a reason! and we would have at least a short talk about events happening (also with words by Ferok), also justifying the "conference".
  • Make Dysleguth first reinforcements be a vanguard of the "undeads" chasing us (and a side?), namely bats (level 1 & 2) or ghosts (level 2 & 3), with Dysleguth words joking about "yet more races".
  • Make Dysleguth further reinforcements (if losing the battle) be more of this chase party.

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Samonella
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Re: The Rising Underworld

Post by Samonella » January 9th, 2019, 9:38 pm

denispir wrote:
January 7th, 2019, 7:55 pm
There may be a bug in Northern Alliance, about Ferok killing Dysleguth: the var called test_x is then tested under the name text_x (spotted it?). This is probably why upon victory I did not properly see Dysleguth be "decapitated" as you write in the source, but indeed heard it ;) and attended to the consequences :).
Looks like that is a small bug, it would make Ferok move to slightly the wrong hex if Dyslegdush was in an even numbered X tile. Nowadays there's a much better way to do that code anyway (with the [adjacent_location] filter) so I'll be sure to update that.

denispir wrote:
January 7th, 2019, 7:55 pm
PS (just to avoid double posting): I have modified map and scenario to have the cave gate closer, as talked in previous posts. Seems to work up to dwarves joining, but need to test further before proposing it to you if you like.
Thanks, but I already made the needed change there, it's in version 1.2.2. :D

denispir wrote:
January 7th, 2019, 7:55 pm
Recode the dwarf sequence in a clear way (with vars) albeit with same or similar logic.
..
Use block-of-code macros everywhere to reveal the code structure & logic.
The main improvement needed is to make a custom event for when the dwarves come out, but I'm not too concerned with how readable this old code is.

denispir wrote:
January 7th, 2019, 7:55 pm
Recode the murder of Dysleguth, firstly by having him run back to keep ifever he moved.
This should be covered when I fix the "text_x" bug.

denispir wrote:
January 7th, 2019, 7:55 pm
Make dwarf allies 2 sides, one (with gurd boss) fighting NW orks, the other (with the lord) SE.
That would be a pretty big change to the scenario, I'd have to go through a lot of work to make sure the difficulty is about right. Frankly I have a lot going on right now and I'm interested in that kind of overhaul. Thanks for offering to help though.

denispir wrote:
January 7th, 2019, 7:55 pm
Dwarves may still join Reginald at the end since it seems good for the story (yet another "Free People"), but then there would be a reason! and we would have at least a short talk about events happening (also with words by Ferok), also justifying the "conference".
I considered showing part of the conference, but it seems like unnecessary text since it would mostly be repeating what was said in the first conference with the elves. Besides, the campaign already has a lot of dialogue, with three talk-only scenarios.

denispir wrote:
January 7th, 2019, 7:55 pm
Make Dysleguth first reinforcements be a vanguard of the "undeads" chasing us (and a side?), namely bats (level 1 & 2) or ghosts (level 2 & 3), with Dysleguth words joking about "yet more races".


Make Dysleguth further reinforcements (if losing the battle) be more of this chase party.
Like I mentioned, the undead aren't allied with any orcs (or even bats in this campaign) but another reason to avoid involving undead is that they are the enemy in a majority of the scenarios. The player will likely get tired of fighting them, so from a game-play perspective this scenario only exists as a way to fight a different faction.
The last few months have been nothing but one big, painful reminder that TIMTLTW.

Creator of Armory Mod, The Rising Underworld, and Voyage of a Drake: an RPG

denispir
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Re: The Rising Underworld

Post by denispir » February 1st, 2019, 4:34 pm

Hello Samonella,

I restart playing TRU and (apart from all being a little easier indeed) I intuitively noted some changes. I ask because coming back to this thread I cannot find information about significant updates (your last post is a reply to mine). But I do at times update add-ons, so if you published a new version I am playing it.

First change is that my troops seem far stronger in XP/level especially, after just a few scenarios. I suspect, actually what other cause could there be?, that you delicately augmented the enemy force. I mean "delicately", in a way that does not significantly increase difficulty (even if replaying as in my case is always easier). At start of scenario Forest in Flames, I have 12 non-merman units in my recall list, all but one level 2 (and I'm not an XP chaser).

I also constantly have muuuch gold (574 at start of Forest in Flames).

I also noted the presence of undead sorcerers, which I do not at all remember from previous playing (nore know from any other campaign or scenario). A very nice, dreadful, and useful or even needed, addition to undead forces in my view (however I deal with them just as with adepts/necromancers indeed).

Now I come to the core point of the post, which is that I cannot anymore pass Forest in Flames. Last time I passed it at first try, even if with some difficulty to adapt to the constant terrain mutation from forest to flat land. However, now it is so massive, mainly due to ghouls burning wood around them (as do all orcs in Galaldur), not only their own tile, that I just get crushed.

On my first attempt, I played like last time certainly (and confident since I had done it then), just rushing a bit to meet the enemy during daylight, then playing retreat/defensively for 3 turns, to finally crush them most. However, this time it was me crushed. On the second attempt, I delayed our meeting and played more defensively all along, still crushed. On third trial, I targeted ghouls, but could only kill 2 at first combat turn, same result...

My overall tactic is to open 2 fronts, corresponding to 2 waves of recalls/recruits: first the slow humans north of the lake, toward the clearing there. Then a wave of fresh but L2 elves passing south of the lake. (Actually I recall/recruit more than 2 full castles, +/- 15 units overall in addition to the 5 startup ones.) These overall moves also allow (more by elves) somewhat driving enemies (bacause it's an AI). This tactic worked very fine last time I played TRU, both forces joining to eliminate last enemies into a "pincer move" and progress toward the undead leader.

I am pretty sure that last time I had no more than a dozen units on the field (in addition to the startup ones), of which several L1s, and lost only 2-3 at most. This time playing leads to half a dozen L2s dead each time, and all others (20 L2-5) crushed down if I went on the game.

The core issue now, I guess, apart from the overall force of the (single!) enemy, and why I need to post here, comes from the (certainly ) total uniformity of the landscape or rather of the battle field part of it: first, all forest with tiny bits of hills, but as soon as serious things start, all flat land. This forbids any kind of tactic or I just miss obvious elements... I have no idea of how to retry playing without, as only fate, doom just as last times. My only bet is to stupidly recruit tons of canon fodder (first) to weaken the enemy, but what is the point? I am sure that this is not what you have in mind, the way you play it.

Note: why a single difficulty level (I like it, but still: why?)

Just to avoid double-posting {*}:
Like I mentioned, the undead aren't allied with any orcs (or even bats in this campaign) but another reason to avoid involving undead is that they are the enemy in a majority of the scenarios. The player will likely get tired of fighting them, so from a game-play perspective this scenario only exists as a way to fight a different faction.
Well, you are right. however those undead need not be allied with the orks we presently fight. And we actually are chased by undeads? When dothey show up (the chasers, not main undead forces)? Would be cool if this chase led somewhere in the story and playing... Or is it just words? If so, why?

PS: I saw somewhere that you also are interested in Wesnoth AI experimentaton.

{*} Would someone be nice and tell me once and for all why double-posting is (supposed to be) evil? Have never had any answer to this question...

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Samonella
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Re: The Rising Underworld

Post by Samonella » February 2nd, 2019, 7:58 pm

denispir wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 4:34 pm
I also noted the presence of undead sorcerers, which I do not at all remember from previous playing (nore know from any other campaign or scenario).
I'm surprised you didn't see them before, I had them in the very first version of the campaign.

denispir wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 4:34 pm
Now I come to the core point of the post, which is that I cannot anymore pass Forest in Flames. Last time I passed it at first try, even if with some difficulty to adapt to the constant terrain mutation from forest to flat land. However, now it is so massive, mainly due to ghouls burning wood around them (as do all orcs in Galaldur), not only their own tile, that I just get crushed.
Strange, this is one of the easier scenarios when I play. Last time, I remember sending all my forces together on the south side of the lake, elves first so they can easily retreat at night as you said, and then some human mages&heavy infantry together with any still healthy elves can get me a strong advantage by the next day. I guess my only advice is standard wesnoth stuff: have a healer or two, plenty of elvish sorceresses, and a few expendable units to put next to valuable ones so (hopefully) they don't get attacked from 3+ directions at once. Also I don't really recommend targeting the necrophages; burning away your defensive terrain is very dangerous, but compared to skeletons they're very hard to kill and deal a lot less damage.

denispir wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 4:34 pm
Note: why a single difficulty level (I like it, but still: why?)
Simply because adding difficulty levels is a lot of work, I'd have to play each scenario several times to get an idea how much gold the enemy should have, them play through the whole campaign at very least once to see how much my starting gold changes. And of course if it needs more balancing then I might have to start all over.

denispir wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 4:34 pm
Well, you are right. however those undead need not be allied with the orks we presently fight. And we actually are chased by undeads? When dothey show up (the chasers, not main undead forces)? Would be cool if this chase led somewhere in the story and playing... Or is it just words? If so, why?
Yeah I guess the chasing is mostly just in the story, so you are fighting other forces but you know that the undead want to stop you.

denispir wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 4:34 pm
Would someone be nice and tell me once and for all why double-posting is (supposed to be) evil? Have never had any answer to this question...
I'm not exactly sure, but one thing might be for notifications. If you make one post and someone gets an email, looks at the topic, and then quickly gets another email it could be annoying. It's better to carefully think about your post and say everything at once.
The last few months have been nothing but one big, painful reminder that TIMTLTW.

Creator of Armory Mod, The Rising Underworld, and Voyage of a Drake: an RPG

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