How to beat Scenario 3
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How to beat Scenario 3
I've received several comments that scenario 3 is rather difficult.
I can't imagine the Orcs being that difficult, so I assume the problem people are having is with naga gaining dominance of the sea, making it very difficult to get to the island and kill the orcish commander there.
The big problem is that, while the player can get a handful of mermen by rescuing them from their cages, the orc has enough money to hire a good dozen naga, and the mermen will inevitably become overwhelmed.
The way I completed the level was to play offensively on land, and defensively at sea. I sent my best land troops west, while quickly rescuing as many mermen as I could. I moved the mermen I rescued back to my base castle, and hired mages, fighters, and horsemen to help them.
The offensive fighting force was able to make headway fairly easily, capturing lots of villages to keep my income flowing.
The naga attacked me, charging toward Konrad. Some also beached themselves trying to get at the army going west, and were easily slaughtered.
Remember that mages, marksmen and sharpshooters are guaranteed 70% chance of hitting naga, even when they're in the water.
I lost a few mermen in the battle, but the naga attack soon ran out. I made sure that I attacked them at long range alot. Having to attack them at close range is unadvisable: you will get 30% chance to hit them, and they will get 70+% chance to hit you.
I forced them to have to beach themselves if they wanted the opportunity to attack Konrad.
I used my remaining mermen to move forward and re-capture the sea-villages. By this stage victory was inevitable.
What strategies have others used? In what ways have people found it hard? Any suggestions for making it easier?
One possibly for making it easier would be to make it that the player can recruit mermen throughout the level. Another possibility would be to make the requirements to complete the level to rescue all the mermen and kill the orcish land commander, but not the sea commander. Any other ideas? People who have completed this level successfully have told me it's one of the most enjoyable, so I don't want to change it too much.
David
I can't imagine the Orcs being that difficult, so I assume the problem people are having is with naga gaining dominance of the sea, making it very difficult to get to the island and kill the orcish commander there.
The big problem is that, while the player can get a handful of mermen by rescuing them from their cages, the orc has enough money to hire a good dozen naga, and the mermen will inevitably become overwhelmed.
The way I completed the level was to play offensively on land, and defensively at sea. I sent my best land troops west, while quickly rescuing as many mermen as I could. I moved the mermen I rescued back to my base castle, and hired mages, fighters, and horsemen to help them.
The offensive fighting force was able to make headway fairly easily, capturing lots of villages to keep my income flowing.
The naga attacked me, charging toward Konrad. Some also beached themselves trying to get at the army going west, and were easily slaughtered.
Remember that mages, marksmen and sharpshooters are guaranteed 70% chance of hitting naga, even when they're in the water.
I lost a few mermen in the battle, but the naga attack soon ran out. I made sure that I attacked them at long range alot. Having to attack them at close range is unadvisable: you will get 30% chance to hit them, and they will get 70+% chance to hit you.
I forced them to have to beach themselves if they wanted the opportunity to attack Konrad.
I used my remaining mermen to move forward and re-capture the sea-villages. By this stage victory was inevitable.
What strategies have others used? In what ways have people found it hard? Any suggestions for making it easier?
One possibly for making it easier would be to make it that the player can recruit mermen throughout the level. Another possibility would be to make the requirements to complete the level to rescue all the mermen and kill the orcish land commander, but not the sea commander. Any other ideas? People who have completed this level successfully have told me it's one of the most enjoyable, so I don't want to change it too much.
David
This is strategy that I used to beat the level
I also used fighters to soak the attacks of the nagas, put the figther in a shallow water tile (or better in a village island) but just near the coast, the nagas will ignore your merman and attack the fighter, next turn move the fighter to land and heal him move elf to that water spot... meanwhile your mermen should fiish the wounded nagas.
Maybe you should add a "difficulty level"
Easy: Enemies only get 50% of gold
Normal: Same as now
Insane: Enemies get 150% gold
I also used fighters to soak the attacks of the nagas, put the figther in a shallow water tile (or better in a village island) but just near the coast, the nagas will ignore your merman and attack the fighter, next turn move the fighter to land and heal him move elf to that water spot... meanwhile your mermen should fiish the wounded nagas.
Maybe you should add a "difficulty level"
Easy: Enemies only get 50% of gold
Normal: Same as now
Insane: Enemies get 150% gold
Yeah levels are a good idea. 50%-100%-150% might be a little extreme in difference in difficulty so I might make it more like 70%-100%-130%.
I'll probably also allow configuration for different levels in the config file. You could do something like
#if EASY
recruit=Orcish Grunt,Orcish Archer
#else
recruit=Orcish Warrior,Orcish Archer
#endif
It's possible that players who play on the hard level might get to play some extra scenarios as a 'bonus'.
David
I'll probably also allow configuration for different levels in the config file. You could do something like
#if EASY
recruit=Orcish Grunt,Orcish Archer
#else
recruit=Orcish Warrior,Orcish Archer
#endif
It's possible that players who play on the hard level might get to play some extra scenarios as a 'bonus'.
David
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misleb
I must suck
Scenerio 3 seems way too difficult. Well, at least in contrast with the previous two levels. I'm not sure I know how to go about winning it. I read the hints here, but I am just overwhelmed by the resources of the enemy. They just keep coming! If i try really hard, i can gain dominance on land, but I just can't manage to fight off so many naga... AND beat the Orc leaders. It isn't like I can get any significant income from the towns either. I barely have enough to maintain the troops I have.
How do ya'll get the gold to higher a useful number of mages and such? By the time I recall my Outriders, Knight, and a few fighters I barely have enough to to recruit much to defend against 12+ naga. I am tempted to repeat scenerio 2 to get better units to recall. (scenerio 2 was TOO easy, IMO) But I know that is not the right way.
-matthew
How do ya'll get the gold to higher a useful number of mages and such? By the time I recall my Outriders, Knight, and a few fighters I barely have enough to to recruit much to defend against 12+ naga. I am tempted to repeat scenerio 2 to get better units to recall. (scenerio 2 was TOO easy, IMO) But I know that is not the right way.
-matthew
I don't see anything particularly wrong with repeating scenario 2 to try to get better units if you're not doing well on scenario 3. I think it's inevitable that sometimes players will have to repeat a certain scenario because they didn't get enough good units during it.
However you do sound like you've got some good units. You promoted 3+ horsemen in scenario 2? You must use alot of horsemen, most people seem to think that horsemen are underpowered.
It sounds like you didn't have alot of gold at the end of scenario 2. I will agree that you have to have quite a bit of gold in scenario 3, otherwise you're in trouble.
Outriders are cool units, but great fighters they are not, and although having one outrider by scenario 3 might be a good idea, having multiple outriders probably isn't. What'd help far more is if you had promoted Fighters or Archers. An Elvish Marksman in particular, would be highly effective against the naga.
I will make scenario 3 easier, based on the sheer number of people who say it's too hard, if nothing else. Less gold for the orc on the island would probably do the trick.
David
However you do sound like you've got some good units. You promoted 3+ horsemen in scenario 2? You must use alot of horsemen, most people seem to think that horsemen are underpowered.
It sounds like you didn't have alot of gold at the end of scenario 2. I will agree that you have to have quite a bit of gold in scenario 3, otherwise you're in trouble.
Outriders are cool units, but great fighters they are not, and although having one outrider by scenario 3 might be a good idea, having multiple outriders probably isn't. What'd help far more is if you had promoted Fighters or Archers. An Elvish Marksman in particular, would be highly effective against the naga.
I will make scenario 3 easier, based on the sheer number of people who say it's too hard, if nothing else. Less gold for the orc on the island would probably do the trick.
David
Re: I must suck
In scenario 2 I first recruit few waves of fighters and then change recruiting mages. Goal is to finish the scenario as fast as possible (so you have load of money in the beginning of scenario 3).misleb wrote:How do ya'll get the gold to higher a useful number of mages and such? By the time I recall my Outriders, Knight, and a few fighters I barely have enough to to recruit much to defend against 12+ naga. I am tempted to repeat scenerio 2 to get better units to recall. (scenerio 2 was TOO easy, IMO) But I know that is not the right way.
And yes I know Dave hates this "unit pumping" (hiring them just for cheap recalling at next scenario)
In scenario 3 recall your fighters and then your mages. Get on land after you are finished with recalling/recruiting, don't defend your castle - wipe the enemy.
- Miyo
Re: I must suck
But I don't see how this is even an effective tactic. If you hire an Elvish fighter, you're going to pay more to recall him (20 gold) than you would to recruit a new one (14 gold). The only reason you'd want to recall him is if you've got him some experience, in which case that's good for you, you should be able to retain the experience.miyo wrote:
In scenario 2 I first recruit few waves of fighters and then change recruiting mages. Goal is to finish the scenario as fast as possible (so you have load of money in the beginning of scenario 3).
And yes I know Dave hates this "unit pumping" (hiring them just for cheap recalling at next scenario)
If you're talking about a mage, they cost 42 gold. 42 gold this level is worth 21 gold in the next level. So hiring them now and recalling them next level costs 21 + 20 = 41 gold in next level's terms. Simply waiting for next level to hire them costs 42 gold in next level's terms. I can't see how it's worth it.
If recalling was free as in version 0.1 then I can see the reason.
Would you like to explain what's so effective about this tactic?
Although, I am still thinking that units that are level 1 and have no experience at all will be deleted from the recall list
David
Change turn limits or give more gold or get more experience, many ways to do it. What about some sort of adaptive scoring? If you loose quickly, you get to play that scenario again with some extra help, until you manage to get it right (hopefully you do that sometime). Then you will keep this extra help to the next scenario, and so on.ettin wrote:Another idea for levels: more/less turns to end the scenario.
Example:
Easy, no turn limit
Normal, 28 turns
Difficult, 22 turns
But if you win (and depending on how "easily" you win) you get less (or much lesser) help in the next scenario...
Just an idea....
I must suck, too
First time (in this version ;] ) I tried to beat 3rd scenario with Red Mage, Druid and 2 Outriders. Needless to say, I was bashed MANY times.
Second time, after reading this topic I promoted Druid, White Mage, 2 Outriders and a Knight in scenario 2.... and some experienced infantry. The reason behind 3 horsemen - I know there's lots of open distance to travel. Additionaly, Outriders can fortify villages.
I used White Mage to fortify second closest to me water village and sent Jarla (mermen) along right border to bring me storm trident. My offensive suceeded on land without much trouble, I even trained Elvish Captain and Ranger. Meanwhile, I was barely able to defend against Nagas. Around 14 or so turns to finish naga spammer.
NO WAY. There are too many naga and I can't even attack them. I could if there was more time left. That would be loong way with slowly moving white mage and surrounding him with units. Even my hardcore land army wouldn't be able to make its way to second orc leader in time. Simply because Naga blocks my way.
My suggestion is to fix BUG which causes Mermen advancing to Mermen Lord to LOSE STORM TRIDENT It's not fair, perhaps I would be able to sneak storm mermen lord somehow and zap that damn orc.
In my opinion there are too many villages close to orc island. I can't capture them quickly because they're too far and mermen are more-less surrounded by hordes of naga. They keep coming.
Now I'm going to reload and try moving white mage towards orc island RIGHT from beginning, and surround him with mermen.
-----------
It seems that this scenario relies HEAVILY on white mage. There are hardly any chances to defend against naga without one. Wait, you aren't meant to defend - you have to attack... nevermind.
Second time, after reading this topic I promoted Druid, White Mage, 2 Outriders and a Knight in scenario 2.... and some experienced infantry. The reason behind 3 horsemen - I know there's lots of open distance to travel. Additionaly, Outriders can fortify villages.
I used White Mage to fortify second closest to me water village and sent Jarla (mermen) along right border to bring me storm trident. My offensive suceeded on land without much trouble, I even trained Elvish Captain and Ranger. Meanwhile, I was barely able to defend against Nagas. Around 14 or so turns to finish naga spammer.
NO WAY. There are too many naga and I can't even attack them. I could if there was more time left. That would be loong way with slowly moving white mage and surrounding him with units. Even my hardcore land army wouldn't be able to make its way to second orc leader in time. Simply because Naga blocks my way.
My suggestion is to fix BUG which causes Mermen advancing to Mermen Lord to LOSE STORM TRIDENT It's not fair, perhaps I would be able to sneak storm mermen lord somehow and zap that damn orc.
In my opinion there are too many villages close to orc island. I can't capture them quickly because they're too far and mermen are more-less surrounded by hordes of naga. They keep coming.
Now I'm going to reload and try moving white mage towards orc island RIGHT from beginning, and surround him with mermen.
-----------
It seems that this scenario relies HEAVILY on white mage. There are hardly any chances to defend against naga without one. Wait, you aren't meant to defend - you have to attack... nevermind.
Re: I must suck, too
You're right, this is a bug. I'll look at fixing it. I can imagine how that'd be rather frustrating.B0rsuk wrote: My suggestion is to fix BUG which causes Mermen advancing to Mermen Lord to LOSE STORM TRIDENT It's not fair, perhaps I would be able to sneak storm mermen lord somehow and zap that damn orc.
Well, when I completed this scenario, I didn't have a white mage (or a red mage for that matter).B0rsuk wrote: It seems that this scenario relies HEAVILY on white mage. There are hardly any chances to defend against naga without one. Wait, you aren't meant to defend - you have to attack... nevermind.
However I do agree that the scenario is too hard at the moment. It will likely be around the current difficulty on 'hard' level in the next version.
Thanks for the feedback!
David
Awwww.....
I defeated most naga, developed
2 Elvish captains
2 elvis heros
1 marksman
1 red mage
1 white mage
1 konrad lord
2 outriders
1 knight
... I'll pay TON of gold for 2 extra turns !
-------------------------
I guess it's time to divide my force earlier. I could smash first orc leader with less soldiers.
2 Elvish captains
2 elvis heros
1 marksman
1 red mage
1 white mage
1 konrad lord
2 outriders
1 knight
... I'll pay TON of gold for 2 extra turns !
-------------------------
I guess it's time to divide my force earlier. I could smash first orc leader with less soldiers.