Faction Observations: Who's the strongest? Who's the best?

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joshudson
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Post by joshudson » August 16th, 2007, 6:46 pm

Alliance of Light is probably the most overpowered faction.
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Firense
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Post by Firense » August 18th, 2007, 8:54 am

Against elves? Undead.
I was surprised to read this to be honest!
At day, the Elves can completely overwhelm an entire Undead army with Mages and Woses, with ofcourse the odd Fighter to take Dark Adepts, nothing that can be done against them to be honest.
Undead dont have Fire attacks to counter the Wose, and their blade attacks belong to the Skeleton, which will get more damage in return.

Anyway, I dont think you can really rate it like this, Im personally a big fan of Northerners and when used effective, they can be VERY strong!
So here goes:
1: Dwarves, not very mobile, but very versatile, their Thunderers are 1 hit K.O. units to any bad positioned units, especially Cavalry and Drakes.
2: Rebels, all units (except Woses) have a Ranged attack, which makes ppl think twice of attacking you in ranged, when on low HP. 70% on forest for their Archers and Shamans is a real pain!
3: Loyalists, this one is close with number 4, their Horseman is always nice for killing low hp units, but very expensive and generally not worth the costs. Spearmen, the meat of your army, are cheap, and have very nice damage for their cost, same as Merman Fighters.
4: Northerners, if you manage to grab hold of Mountains and hills, you are pretty safe. Use Grunts to take forest patches (especially against Elves) and ALWAYS use Assassins (not against UD), youd be surprised how many Rebels will actually ranged attack him to get it down. Make your Trolls hold the front line and cycle them with Grunts while you watch the enemy front line crumble down. Archers are good against Undead and Mounted units, so theyre always nice to have. Another thing against Undead, the Wolf Rider. Huh? He has a blade attack? Level it to a Pillager on low hp Ghosts or Dark Adepts, and if its strong, youll really like that 8-3 Fire melee, not even speaking of the Slow attack which offers protection against Dark Adepts and Archers
5: Drakes, due to their weakness to piercing attacks, while being VERY expensive, I dont rate them very high. Clashers dont have a Ranged attack, making them an easy kill at times. Their Saurian Cousins, who are weak against fire and cold dont really stand out either. A mage, Dark Adept or 2 Orcish Archers can take one out on their preferred time of the day.
6: Undead, very low resistances to some, very high to others. Especially in Age of Heroes (I dont play it) they are the worst, Loyalists get Shock Troopers and White mages and its over. Generally every race has some means to kill Undead units. However, if some people used their units in a smart way. Ghosts can take a village far beyond the frontline to make enemys split up their armys, and if they didnt get a mage they will have a hard struggle taking you down. Ghouls are something Ive always hated, in a good spot, and you need to kill them (as Northerners) youll almost always have to melee attack it.

Velensk
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Post by Velensk » August 18th, 2007, 12:27 pm

Hmm... Although I think that overall the factions are mostly balanced and it generaly comes out to who is the best player my chart would be something like this.

1-knalgans, loyalists, drakes.
2-undead, rebles
3-northeners


I'll admit to the fact that the reason I place the northerners last is probably because I realy hate playing them, for I know they can be powerful. I've run over people with them, and been run over by them before, but I would still consiter the undeads cheap poision/magic and the rebles defence/ranges/specials more of an advantage than the northereners general cheap.

I consiter knalgans to have a versitility advantage almost as the loyalists do and they are without a doubt the race best at defending.
Loyalists have a powerful offense and good firepower during the day. They also are versitile and can counter recruit for almost any occasion.
Drakes who make use of all their units mobility can be a very strong force, in addition to their formidable firepower at day they have support for the night.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

Orobanch
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Hey, what about random?

Post by Orobanch » September 20th, 2007, 12:52 am

For default MP factions I can't believe everyone has left out the most default faction of all:

Random.

Being a comfortable player with Random is the mark of a good player.

I mean really, what can rival a :?: as a leader? :wink:

At the moment 1.2.6 & 1.3.7 are so well balanced that no faction is truly hopeless unless you have maps with huge excesses of a very favorable terrain.

I do think that the Drakes are a bit weak these days, but that's because I can remember them in 0.8.x when they were neutral and could slaughter againt 2:1 odds of any faction except merfolk over water. (and alright, faction terrain combos of rebels+forest, Knalgans+mountains, undead+swamps could more or less even the odds).

Sigh, I miss neutral drakes. But then they would become massively overpowered again and noobs would never bother playing with other factions, so maybe it's for the best in the end.


*I know I don't have any posts, but one of these days I'll come up with a username and login that I can bloody remember after being away for the summer.

Shade
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Re: Hey, what about random?

Post by Shade » September 20th, 2007, 5:51 am

Orobanch wrote:I can remember them in 0.8.x when they were neutral and could slaughter againt 2:1 odds of any faction except merfolk over water.
Actually, at the time I was fooling with them, and Sirp (the Dave) had the idea to make them lawful. One could argue that the change to lawful was a 'buff' given their mobility. The change itself was interesting in that it put lawful and chaotic in the same faction-- Leading to a dayshift (To wound and kill) / nightshift (To finish off the wounded) approach.
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Beholder
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Post by Beholder » September 23rd, 2007, 7:28 am

I think some match ups are skewed...

Loyalists have a easy time versus Drakes (Spearmen + Horsemen)

Drakes have a easy time versus Northerers (Burner + Leadership + Wings)

Undead have a easy time versus Drakes (Dark Adepts + Ghosts)


Of all these, I think Loyalists x Drakes is the worst. It's hard to run from a Horsemen, and the wall of Spearmen doesn't help.

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Croc Paterson
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Post by Croc Paterson » September 23rd, 2007, 8:47 pm

Beholder wrote:I think some match ups are skewed...

Loyalists have a easy time versus Drakes (Spearmen + Horsemen)

Drakes have a easy time versus Northerers (Burner + Leadership + Wings)

Undead have a easy time versus Drakes (Dark Adepts + Ghosts)


Of all these, I think Loyalists x Drakes is the worst. It's hard to run from a Horsemen, and the wall of Spearmen doesn't help.
Remind me why you changed your name again?

By the way, here's something to consider: Maybe you just don't really know how to play these matchups?

If you really want anyone to take you seriously, go beat a good player as one of the "advantaged" factions, and post the replay for everyone to see.
"Your face is overpowered." - Neoriceisgood

Edward V Riley
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Post by Edward V Riley » September 23rd, 2007, 9:06 pm

Truthfully, I think it all depends on what gameplay style suits you best.

The better balanced groups are the elves and the loyalists. Their offense and defense is more reliable, but doesn't do as much damage as others. For a player with offense/defense as their mindset, these are the best to play. Northerners are the next closest in balanced.

For purely defensive styles, dwarves and the knalgan alliance are the best until we give some units shovels and allow them entrenchment..which will probably never happen. And even then, who would be better at digging?

For offensive of a kind of hit and run, the drakes are best at this. This faction, to me, is the hardest to master. the Undead are also a good bet at offense, but not a hit and run style.

For swarm tactics, you can't beat the undead.

Northerners are the best if you prefer "sneakier" tactics. There's nothing wrong with this style at all morally as past history has portrayed it.
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Beholder
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Post by Beholder » September 24th, 2007, 12:55 am

Croc Paterson wrote:
Beholder wrote:I think some match ups are skewed...

Loyalists have a easy time versus Drakes (Spearmen + Horsemen)

Drakes have a easy time versus Northerers (Burner + Leadership + Wings)

Undead have a easy time versus Drakes (Dark Adepts + Ghosts)


Of all these, I think Loyalists x Drakes is the worst. It's hard to run from a Horsemen, and the wall of Spearmen doesn't help.
Remind me why you changed your name again?

By the way, here's something to consider: Maybe you just don't really know how to play these matchups?

If you really want anyone to take you seriously, go beat a good player as one of the "advantaged" factions, and post the replay for everyone to see.
There is a thing I don't get. Someone create a post called "what is the best faction" which gather 11 pages. Note I didn't created the thread but more then one person think THERE is a imbalance.

However, anyone who dare point maybe there is a imbalance on Wesnoth is crucified.

No.. Wesnoth is perfectly balanced. Obviously everybody who disagree is wrong. The Wesnoth Fan Club is far more annoying and the first to attack the person (not the argument)

So I ask.. why this thread isn't closed yet? I think Spearmen versus Drake is totally broken. Add Horsemen and you really need to suck to lose.

People like you are the true Higher Gamer because your skill on bad match ups are far superior of normal beings.


Anyway, versus Drakes I hold my ground. Say time and day and I will see what miracle you can pull. I choose the map of course, since if the race is balanced, it should work on all maps right?

See you in the field.

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Doc Paterson
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Post by Doc Paterson » September 24th, 2007, 2:04 am

Beholder wrote:
Loyalists have a easy time versus Drakes (Spearmen + Horsemen)

Drakes have a easy time versus Northerers (Burner + Leadership + Wings)

Undead have a easy time versus Drakes (Dark Adepts + Ghosts)
When I am on the server and see you, we can play each and every one of those matches. What I won't do is plan my day around it. (I went on just now, and didn't see you.)

Here's an easy exercise for you:

List the names of any of the following players that you've won against, while playing the "advantaged" side of any of the aforementioned matchups.

(In no particular order. I'm forgetting some, but these are many of our best 1v1 players.)

ereksos
Soliton
Gallifax
Duthlet
nani
ping
Becephalus
deacon prots
Dragonking
Cackfiend
Pietro
Wintermute
Zlodzei/Pagan
EID +co.
palloco

(A pretty long list, so let's hope you're at least able to write down a few of these names.)


If you really and truly care about proving everyone wrong about these things, show us some replays of you dominating any of these players in the supposedly unbalanced matchups.

* * * * *

Ought to be easy, right?


Or maybe, just maybe, the fault is more with your playing than with the game. :wink:

Be a pal and respond to the above question.

(EDIT: By the way: Do not expect anything to come of a "play me or else I'm proven right" attitude. You need to seek these players out, ask them when you see them on the server for games, and post the replays, regardless of the result.)
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because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses.
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tsr
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Post by tsr » September 24th, 2007, 6:14 am

And be sure to play on one of the official maps, since balance is a factional and terrain kind of thing.

/tsr

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Cackfiend
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Post by Cackfiend » December 4th, 2007, 4:42 pm

Doc Paterson wrote:
Beholder wrote:
Loyalists have a easy time versus Drakes (Spearmen + Horsemen)

Drakes have a easy time versus Northerers (Burner + Leadership + Wings)

Undead have a easy time versus Drakes (Dark Adepts + Ghosts)

(In no particular order. I'm forgetting some, but these are many of our best 1v1 players.)

Cackfiend

I can honestly say ive never lost a Drake vs Undead matchup (me being drakes) and i think its the most unbalanced matchup... except for drake vs loyalist because i think that mass spearman is definitely overpowered vs drakes but as i understand it 1.3 is addressing this problem. Now lets hope a final version of 1.3 comes out one of these days :D

also, i would never say drakes have an easy time vs orcs. A good drake player vs a good orc player can be a very fun, challenging, and good game.
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I'm the guy who's responsible for 40% Gliders in all hexes... I can now die a happy man. =D

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Xandria
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Post by Xandria » December 4th, 2007, 8:01 pm

Well, since the Clasher has received first strike for his speak attacks, he's an excellent roadblock against horsemen, especially since he's not weak to pierce. Likewise, the spearguy has his first strike negated by the Clasher, too. Loyalists are slowed by any terrain whatsoever, so you should be able to bring a flare and burners to bear, too.

While I do not claim there is a true balance, I think that it is far better than in many other games. Ever played tabletop Warhammer? That was one unbalanced game that cost me countless nerves. Warcraft III was pretty broken too. Heroes of Might and Magic 1-5? Ditto.
The fight against human stupidity is endless, but we must never give it up.
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Jozrael
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Post by Jozrael » December 4th, 2007, 9:20 pm

Insult a Blizzard game?

BLASPHEMY.

/joke

IB
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Post by IB » December 5th, 2007, 12:02 am

I think most factions are balanced very well, I do feel undead are currently the weakest faction, mostly vs loyalists with their cold resists and dwarves, those ulfs are a killer.

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