Faction Observations: Who's the strongest? Who's the best?

[Skrim]

I wasn't arguing that Knalgans were the best in some campaign, I just said that not previously having much experience with dwarves (only in HttT where I didn't use them too much, but now I regret it), having experience with dwarf lords awakened me to their power. The factions have been carefully designed to be pretty well balanced, how they do then depends on all the other factors. No single person is right; everyone has different styles and thus perhaps a faction that they can use to the best of its ability.

Still, your post was sort of out-of-context. In a campaign, the most powerful faction is the one controlled by the player. Full stop. Regardless of which faction it is. Ever tried Legend of Wesmere with an army of Elvish Sylphs?

Northern Rebirth is an even worse indicator, given that your forces consist of units from several different factions, and you have units like the Thug line, an Ancient Lich and invincible White Magi, which are campaign-only stuff.

In multiplayer, my opinion is that there is no strongest faction. They're all just too well balanced. Every faction has it's strengths and weaknesses, has it's own unique play style, and has ways of making up for it's weaknesses.

[stupidjaguar]

I'm very sorry. This is true, liches and invincible magi probably had something to do with me not getting crushed... especially since I could toss the magi to the front and let them deal with a bunch of units. Yes, Shydes are fun. Getting them is kind of hard though. I can never manage more than like... one or two. That line of elves dies quickly.

Curiously, the only time I ever leveled the thug line was in the second scenario... I used mostly dwarves after that, and the one or two highwaymen that I had left died easily or had their HP drained quickly by trolls and other northerners.

[ParadiseCity]

Personally i don't think any one faction is the strongest or the best. What most defines what faction I like is the gameplay of each, and how hard it is to play them. I think that, in order of least hard to most hard, they would rank:

1. Elves and Loyalists

-Both have great unit lines and easily used strengths(forest dodge/overall unit effectiveness)

2. Knalgans and Northerners

-Both have different styles of play than normal. Knalgans have solid resists but must be used very carefully. And you need to get used to the gameplay of spamming and unit massing for northerners.

3. Undead

-With most of their units having the same weaknesses and resists, you must plan your defenses and attacks very carefully.

4. Drakes

-I've always had trouble with drakes. With all of their units having bad dodge or bad resists, coupled being split between night and day, you must be a great player to use them well.

[Pentarctagon]

personally, i think that the knalgans are harder to play than undead. while the undead do have specific weakness, they also have specific strengths, so it can go both ways. also, the undead have a magical unit and a poison unit, whereas the knalgans have neither of those.

[Velensk]

The knalgans are indeed tough to play against a skilled opponent. However it can be done. The knalgans have their own strength however, it is very situational. Knalgans are all about thinking ahead in such a way that allows you to create a situation where your opponent is always on the short end of the stick (or at the very least that you don't lose anything by attempting to force them into it). All the factions have that effect, but knalgans revel in it and have tools for it that arn't always obvious.

I wrote a guide on knalgan play. It was never stickied because I still havn't gotten around to finishing it. I imagine that it is on page 3-5 about now.

[Turuk]

I wrote a guide on knalgan play. It was never stickied because I still havn't gotten around to finishing it. I imagine that it is on page 3-5 about now.

*Dashes in*

Velensk's Knalgan Guide

*Dashes away*

[cobra]

In my opinion, the Dwarves are the strongest, holding 1st with brute strength and high resistance. As for the best? I am inclined to say either elves or Dwarves.

[Exleos]

personally: (tier format)

Top - Knalgan Alliance

So much resistance, use of mountains to the point that mountains cannot be placed next to cities due to Knalgan pressure, and they have gryphons. Note: DWARVES ARE USUALLY AFRAID OF HEIGHTS. YOU PUT DWARVES ON GRYPHONS!! WTF?!?! They break the theme of dwarves in general and the theme of the faction, and are too useful in general. The only really balanced fact of gryphons is their cost

EDIT: I forgot to note that Knalgans have rather good versitility also, using the chaotic humans to fight in the forest, or augment a push, or steady a defense against rebels. This goes double while it's night. Also, clarification on the pressure note, Dwarves are the only unit that can abuse mountains next to villages, as the northies units can't survive 1-on-1 against a unit on a village no matter what.

Top Mid - Loyalists/Rebels

I lump these together because they are more versatile than other factions. Versatility is so important in Wesnoth due to resistance of attack types, and loys and rebels have the largest diversity. They both also have very powerful units also, so they are good in general also. The only reason they aren't top tier is because the Knalgan Alliance is just that much better.

Mid - Drakes/Undead

Although when used well, these are destructive, the simple fact that they are outclassed by the loys and rebel is the only reason they aren't top tier. Drakes have good movement in general, have great ranged (if only fire) attacks, great physical attacks and diversity, and even have chaotic units to help their night defense. They only are really missing a water unit to be able to fight better on lake centric maps, but overall a very good faction. Undead are only ranked so low because one mistake will force you to give up too much land, and how hard it is to fight the Knalgan Alliance. If you over extend at night, you will be punished harshly. Also, reavealing your unit composition too soon will allow the opponent to react easily, and with scouts, your unit composition is never hidden for long anyway.

Bottom - Northerners

Northies are at the bottom only because their units need to swarm in order to be the most effective. They need to hit hard and fast during the night, and either kill the opponent, or pull out ASAP, usually before dawn. This causes them to be too hit and run to be really stable IMO, but they can be really annoying to play against. Note: I notice that most lists either rank them at the top or bottom, never in the middle. Just an interesting fact.

[Joram]

DWARVES ARE USUALLY AFRAID OF HEIGHTS. YOU PUT DWARVES ON GRYPHONS!! WTF?!?!

This came from where?

[Velensk]

Hard to be a good mountaineer if you're afraid of heights.

[Caphriel]

This thread had been resting peacefully since mid-2009

[Joram]

Oh wow. Hehe. I knew that it was an oooooooooooold thread, since I remember it back from the days when I first started lurking (about 2 years before my join date, I think). But I thought it was one of those old threads that had kept popping up from time to time, forming a loose continuum through the mists of time.

But yeah, that's quite the necro there, Exleos.

[Gambit]

Exleos: Please don't bump threads that have been dead for over a year.

Ordinarily I'd just delete necro-posts under the cover of darkness (Forum Sith being Chaotic and all) and let the thread rest in peace again, but since a bunch of you have already replied…

[StDrake]

since it's alive, or at least pretending to again - point to Velensk, dwarves are not afraid of heights since that would be practically the same as being afraid of depths - and canonically they can have quite deep mine shafts after all, not to mention mountains being high in general
They didn't get short cause they were afraid to look down on their feet, they got short cause they kept bumping their heads on the stalactites.

[jebob]

I always thought of dwarves being afraid of the open sky (agoraphobia). This would give them a tendancy to tunnel, imo.