Faction Observations: Who's the strongest? Who's the best?

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Sorrow
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Post by Sorrow » December 6th, 2007, 9:38 am

I don't like it either :\. They are OK as is but I don't like that they lack all those things, they make up for it with specials no one else has (berzerk/steadfast) which are rather bland in comparison.

I think Knalgan vs Knalgan needs to be the next mirror fixed, like UDvUD was just fixed. Some offensive bonus of some kind. RIght now its all dependent on luck. Ulf can be said to be the offensive weapon, but he is expensive and SUPER unreliable and requires luck unlike all the other offensive weapons. I recently had a full HP berzerker(on 40%) lose to a fencer(on 60%) at dawn :\. It was strong resilient too.
Its quite likely for an ulf to deviate from the expected result several times in one game, and when they do you just lost 19 gold and your entire assault failed, whereas with anything else you get a chance to redeem yourself.

Also the thing is you cannot, gamble on deviating in the positive for you with an ulf, if the % is less for you to win than lose then you pretty much cant do anything without risking a 19g unit. With a mage you can gamble on a triple hit, not a big deal.
Sometimes ulfs are extremely fun, and sometimes its hell to try and attack your opponent. And Knalgan vs Knalgan is one great way to blow three hours having no fun.

Possible Balance ideas:
1) Make the ulf better
2) Weaken some stuff and add something that is a real offense.
3) Ulf insurance, when an ulf dies you get money based on his CTK in his last battle.
Let us all measure in milliyards, that way we can all get along.

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Shadow
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Post by Shadow » December 6th, 2007, 10:22 am

The berserk never really fitted to Wesnoth in such a undetermined environment having such a determining unit is not really good.

It would be cool if he gets further strikes depending on the hits he took in retaliation. He would still have a high killing chance but not this awkward "there can be only one". Still he wouldn't be that risky to use or a no brainer against Adepts.
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Sorrow
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Post by Sorrow » December 6th, 2007, 10:34 am

Shadow wrote:The berserk never really fitted to Wesnoth in such a undetermined environment having such a determining unit is not really good.

It would be cool if he gets further strikes depending on the hits he took in retaliation. He would still have a high killing chance but not this awkward "there can be only one". Still he wouldn't be that risky to use or a no brainer against Adepts.
Thats all fine and dandy but its pretty easy to make a threat against the ulfs for killing the adepts like a ghost or... anything and its 16 for 19 gold. Unless you can kill all the adepts in the area and protect the ulf in one fell swoop!

Ulfs are almost better for the threat of using them, not actually using them in an attack.

Still, ulf insurance: problem solved.
Let us all measure in milliyards, that way we can all get along.

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Sombra
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Post by Sombra » December 6th, 2007, 11:38 am

Xandria wrote:To be honest, I find the Knalgans' lack of Arcane, Cold and Fire damage, no leadership, no healer, no slowing guy, no mage, no marksman, no poison (except for the lvl3 Assassin), no lvl 1 skirmisher, no lvl3 for many units and apalling defense on grass and forest a little crippling. They'd have to be the faction I am least comfortable with.
Yupp, my feeling they are not bad but simply boring and lack the extra kick... would be really nice if they would get somehting special like a runesmith or something...not really for balancing reasons but to make the "standart" faction more interessting.

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Post by PingPangQui » December 6th, 2007, 1:27 pm

Seems like Sombra played to much Knalgans ;). Honestly, I don't think dwarves and outlaws are boring to play or that they are to weak - they are definitely not. They are quite different compared to other factions and thus need to be played differently - true.

However, that's a nice thing in my opinion.
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Herduk
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Post by Herduk » December 6th, 2007, 1:54 pm

PingPangQui wrote:Seems like Sombra played to much Knalgans ;). Honestly, I don't think dwarves and outlaws are boring to play or that they are to weak - they are definitely not. They are quite different compared to other factions and thus need to be played differently - true.

However, that's a nice thing in my opinion.
I agree. Dwarves and Drakes are the alpha and the omega in factions: in the middle you find the others factions.

I'm using the Dev version and i think a dwarf's revision is needed, an update, not a re-balance :)
Don't bother a dwarf.. you can argue with his hammer!

Sombra
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Post by Sombra » December 6th, 2007, 2:06 pm

PingPangQui wrote:Seems like Sombra played to much Knalgans ;). Honestly, I don't think dwarves and outlaws are boring to play or that they are to weak - they are definitely not. They are quite different compared to other factions and thus need to be played differently - true.

However, that's a nice thing in my opinion.
Come on tell me you never dreamed of a female berserker with the same amount of cloth as its male counterpart and without beards... I dont like women with beards...

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Post by Blarumyrran » December 6th, 2007, 2:13 pm

Sombra wrote:Come on tell me you never dreamed of a female berserker with the same amount of cloth as its male counterpart and without beards... I dont like women with beards...
uh, east german steroid-rigged sportswomen? not really...

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Post by elvish master » December 6th, 2007, 7:33 pm

How i prefer to play:

1.rebels
2.knalgas
3.undead
4.loyalist
5.drakes
6.northeners

Wo id like to kick the ass out of:

1.northeners
2.loyalist
3.drakes
4.undead
5.knalgas
6.rebels

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Sorrow
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Post by Sorrow » December 6th, 2007, 10:28 pm

Syntax_Error wrote:
Sombra wrote:Come on tell me you never dreamed of a female berserker with the same amount of cloth as its male counterpart and without beards... I dont like women with beards...
uh, east german steroid-rigged sportswomen? not really...
Forgot midget.
Let us all measure in milliyards, that way we can all get along.

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Frostfire
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Post by Frostfire » December 6th, 2007, 10:59 pm

another thing Sorrowful forgot to mention was that Guardsmen are virtually invincible in dwarf mirror matches. It takes roughly 3 fighters and an ulf to safely kill one, which is completely ridiculous considering it's 76g for 19g, and a smart player would instantly take back whatever the guardsman was holding (say a mountain for example) if he put his units out correctly. Theres also the fact that you used 4 units to kill a single unit of his, and theres still a chance of failure in that.

Basically if a dwarf wants to, he can drag a game out into oblivion by building tons of guardsmen and just putting them on hills, mountains, and villages. Of course I may just be missing something there balance-wise.

IB
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Post by IB » December 7th, 2007, 2:04 am

Xandria wrote:To be honest, I find the Knalgans' lack of Arcane, Cold and Fire damage, no leadership, no healer, no slowing guy, no mage, no marksman, no poison (except for the lvl3 Assassin), no lvl 1 skirmisher, no lvl3 for many units and apalling defense on grass and forest a little crippling. They'd have to be the faction I am least comfortable with.
The fact an intelligent fighter only needs 3 kills to become immortal is nice.

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Post by turin » December 7th, 2007, 2:23 am

Incidentally,, is there a reason "northerners" is misspelled as "northeners" well over half the time?
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Caeb
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Post by Caeb » December 7th, 2007, 4:12 am

Frostfire wrote:Basically if a dwarf wants to, he can drag a game out into oblivion by building tons of guardsmen and just putting them on hills, mountains, and villages. Of course I may just be missing something there balance-wise.
what you're missing is what some like to call HODOR...

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Sorrow
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Post by Sorrow » December 7th, 2007, 4:32 am

Caeb wrote: what you're missing is what some like to call HODOR...
Trust me he is quite the HODOR fanatic.
Let us all measure in milliyards, that way we can all get along.

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