Quality versus quantity in campaigns

[Incompetent]

So far, I've been trying to buy enough units that I can hold a solid line on at least one front (even when battered units start pulling back to get healed up), and enough cannon fodder that I can use my upgraded units pretty much when and where I please (rather than being forced to use them to hold the line). I get enough upgraded units for my purposes this way, but not enough that I could happily sacrifice more than a couple of them in a battle.

But from some descriptions, I see other more experienced players going into battle with a handful of elite units, and maybe a few new recruits who are there to level up, not to take hits for the big guys. I can see the advantage of this in terms of money, and in terms of not wasting XP on units that are going to die. But if you do this:

How do you keep your people alive in the early stages of battle, when the AI is hurling masses of units at you, often including many level 2+s?

With so little manpower, how do you get a formation that doesn't let the AI throw 4+ units at one of yours? How do you protect your villages on the flanks?

Even the most powerful unit is only going to heal 8HP/turn in battle - wouldn't your level 3 guys eventually get battered and have to spend most of their time out of action if they were taking the brunt of the AI's attacks?

Level 3s will often kill a healthy enemy level 1 in one go (but only *one* enemy unit, so you still need to fight a few turns if the AI is throwing 20 or 30 guys at you). How then can they supply easy kills to their 'apprentices'?

Or have I got this wrong? Is using elite units conservatively and letting cannon fodder take the risks the right way to go after all?

[appleide]

usually I use level3, eg Elvish Marshal, 's second attack like his bow. Take the target's health down to half and use your apprentice being led by the marshal to kill it. if he doesn't, use the other apprentice.

[Beleth]

How do you keep your people alive in the early stages of battle, when the AI is hurling masses of units at you, often including many level 2+s?

With so little manpower, how do you get a formation that doesn't let the AI throw 4+ units at one of yours? How do you protect your villages on the flanks?

Very good questions! And, I might add, questions that I'm still working on for myself.

They key to defending against the AI is understanding how the AI works. The AI generally attacks (1) units that have more exposed hexsides and can therefore be attacked by the most number of units, (2) units with lower hp values so that they can be killed faster, and (3) units with lower chances of counterattacks. This means that they will tend to go after exposed level one units, and if you can expose them in the right way you can actually get a large bang for every levele one you recruit.

The hardest part of most campaign scenarios, for me, is fighting off that first wave that the enemy sends at you. If I can get through the first wave okay, then the rest of the scenario is usually downhill from there.

One way to do this is to place your level ones on the weak points of your formation. Often my formations will end up looking something like this:

Code: Select all

     ENEMY UNITS

       XxxxxX
      xL    Lx
     x        x

Basically, you'll have your front line flush with the enemy units and then your sides will angle back. The two "X" locations are the most vulnerable ones because they have 3 hexsides exposed to the enemy instead of the normal 2 hexsides when you're part of a straight line. This means that the enemy will tend to attack these corner points. Furthermore, if you put your level 1 units at these corner points, the low hp of the units will make the enemy every more likely to attack these corner points.

This is a good thing for a few reasons. First, getting the enemy to rush you level 1's means it's more likely your level 2's and level 3's will live. Second, you split the enemy's forces into two, meaning that they have more exposed hexsides that you can attack. Third, getting them towards the corners in your front line means that your flanks will have an easier time of engaging the enemy, meaning that you'll get more attacks against your enemy.

The drawback is that your level 1's might die, but that's the point of having decoys. Elven fighters will get a number of counterattacks, and if you put level 3 leaders in the L positions then your fighters will do even more damage on counterattack.

Something else to consider doing is moving a single level 1 unit into a very exposed location. On some maps I'll move an Elven fight two or three spaces ahead of my troops into a forest just to sit there and wear a bit target. In high defense terrain, it's possible for this single unit to tie up six enemy units that try to kill it, meaning that an Elven fighter can attack up to 24 times in a single turn (4 for each battle). That's a huge number of attacks for a level 1. And if it doesn't surive against six attackers, you'll still have drawn several enemy units out into the open for you to engage with the units you want to engage them with.

It definitely takes practice, and it's something I still struggle with at times. I'm sure that you'll find a way that works for you! Hope my thoughts are able to help...

[Logan]

To add to the strength of Beleth's formation, it may be smart to leave room in the center for weaker units, so you can switch. Also, posting healers at the two "X" locations would keep that area strong.

My own idea is that when they hit the "X" locations, move the diagonal lines to hug the enemies. Make the enemy line into a smaller one wrapped in Your men, and hopefullie a few gribblies in there too.

[Yogibear]

OK, there is a lot of things to care for in order to get through a campaign well. Beleth already mentioned one, formations (he did a good job on that so i am not going to talk about it much ).

As you already experienced, the usual scenario is you being outnumbered by the AI. With that, brute force is normally not working (the scenario is designed in order to not make it work), you have to be smarter than the AI and a good formation is one thing that lets you survive. But there are more and they may each play a more or less important role in a scenario:

1.
Study the terrain first, before you even recruit any units! Never ever let the AI choose where to fight. I give you an example from one of my multiplayer experiences:
We were playing 2vs2. The game was already won for us, one of the opponents completely wiped out and we were rushing at the remaining enemy from two sides. A matter of time.
On my side it was Northerners against elves, i had to go against 4 fighters and 1 archer and i had about 15 units, most of them trolls and assasins. But... terrain was against me. I had to move on land, 4 hex width, surrounded by deep water (no way to get around there). I was on grassland, 2 elven fighters were holding the line in the forest, the archer was sitting in a village, one elven fighter on grassland as well. But he fell back so he could only be attacked by one unit at a time. The rest of the line was build up so that i could attack with no more than 2 units. The elves had one more village nearby to heal wounded units and one unit to cycle through.
A couple of turns later: Half of my units dead, all elves still standing. 3 level ups so i was facing 2 heros and a marksmen now! Sheesh, i didn't even scratch them! These 5 units could hold the line forever, at least against level 1 units. They could do so because they choosed the right place to fight.
Me and my partner won in the end but we had to go the long way on the other side of the map.

Since you are smarter than the AI, you will carefully choose the place to fight. If the map supports you, you will be able to withstand even if heavily outnumbered. This is one thing, the AI will never do (at least at the moment): Sit in good terrain and waiting for the enemy to come.

2.
Sometimes, you need the right units to win. Going against skeletons with level 1 units, there is only one thing, that really helps: magic. What you need here playing loyalists/elves is mages. Why? Because skeletons have excellent resistances against pierce and blade, and that's basically what the rest of your army is made of. Take marksmen for example (they are already level 2), having an impressive 10-4 with 60% chance to hit. Two of them wear down an orcish warrior within one turn. But against a skeleton that shrinks to 4-4, doing about 10 points damage average per turn. If playing "Siege of Elensefar" on normal or hard, you basically have no chance of winning without mages.

3.
Gold. It's like real life. You hardly ever have enough money in a campaign. But there are some scenarios, that help you collect much of it, if you manage to end them early. "Isle of Anduin" is such a scenario. Many won that by luring the orcish army north and then rush for the leader with a small taskforce.
Other scenarios can not be ended early but have a lot of easy-to-get-at villages instead. Use them to increase your gold.
Once you have a comfortable amount of gold, things get much easier, because you can choose between different strategies (which you normally can not if you are low on gold).

4.
Some scenarios don't require you to fight but to run away. In most of these scenarios, you don't have any time to loose. So run! From the first turn. Recruit one castle of units if that helps and then go for it. Everything else said before normally doesn't apply here.

5.
Level 3 units (even level 2 ones) really really help a lot. But it is vital, that you choose the time and place of the first enemy contact such that you do the first attack and not the AI. Given that, your leveled units will wipe out some enemies and the rest can't hurt you that much any more. Keep also in mind, that in most scenarios 30 enemy units won't get at you in one peace. Scouts will be first. They are weak, easy to beat most of the time. Involve your level 1 units in fighting them and let them get the killing blows. You have about 3 turns, until all your enemies have reached you. One third of them can already be dead by that time...
Most of the time you face more than one enemy. They heavily outnumber you. But: You don't have to fight them all at once. For example you can take as many units as needed and rush for the nearby enemy leader. If you manage to wear him down, you can take his castle, recruit new units and care for the rest.

6.
Taking care of the day/night cycle is very important generally, too. There are many scenarios, where you fight better at day and your enemies at night or vice versa. So don't attack them if odds are against you! If there is no possibility to do a good job, keep standing where you are or even retreat if the scenario conditions allow that.

So you see, there is a whole lot of factors to take into account. Having a look at all of them and base your decisions on that really is the art of playing wesnoth. There is some basic rules but they need to be weighted of being applicable in the current situation. A good campaign teaches you quite some lessons. Especially playing on normal or hard, you will be most likely a better player when you finished it.

Have fun