Save/Load mania...

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"To load,or not to load?"

Load ! - to save my elite units !
30
63%
Not to load ! - I prefer losing elites, than losing pleasure from the game !
18
38%
 
Total votes: 48

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Faello
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Save/Load mania...

Post by Faello »

I played HttT campaing ( medium difficulty level ) . My main problem is that I'm very attached to some of my units - and I don't want to let them die :roll: . On the beginning, I hadn't such problems - all my units were lvl 1 rookies and they died quite often. But when I gained few second level units, I started to watch them carefully, train them, secure them from dangerous situations. Ofc it wasn't possible without heavy save/load strategy. After few missions I managed to gather strong veterans fighting force - in Siege of Elensefar, I beated city defences in 6 turns, after next 12, Undead was no more. I lost 2 thieves ( but not this second level one :P ).

The Valley of Death - I managed to win a flawless victory, sitting around the castle for 9 turns, and retreating during the last 3, before the zombie wave...

After this scenario, I've lost all of pleasure from play, because of the fact, that my every unit in battle line was 3 or 2 level veteran and I had to load every time, to save them :lol: - at the end of every scenario, I had large money deficit, because I quickly summoned my uber-units and finished off AI in the same way.

... but it's my limit. I don't want to play using such exploits - I've restarted campaing, but now it's the other side of medal - sometimes AI luck is just ridiculous - he's finishing my experienced units ( if I get any :roll: ) with easy ( a lot of 100 % hits on 50 % probability - interesting :roll: ) and situation is starting to be more and more difficult - no uber units at the beginning is no problem, but what about later missions ? Time is running out, high level enemies are emerging like mushrooms after the rain, and I have basic lvl units, because all my veterans were finished by the lucky AI strikes ?

So where's the golden point between loading and winning with clear conscience ?
The yellow jester does not play
but gently pulls the strings
and smiles as the puppets dance
in the court of the Crimson King.

ryn
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Post by ryn »

The answer is probably not to load - you need to learn how to play well enough so that you don't lose units you're too attached to. I seem to be able to do this, most of the time - and when a unit dies, I generally either restart the scenario (if I will surely lose without it) or simply keep on playing.
2B |! 2B = 3F

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allefant
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Post by allefant »

I used to play without losing a single unit, not even level 1 ones (well, they never long stayed as level 1). Of course, it required massive reloading - I saved every turn, then multiple times during a turn, and in desparate cases even during fights (using the bug that if you save during a fight, you always have it won when reloading). There's always the balance of either reloading (which takes fun off the game), or playing on, with your named unit you like so much dead (also takes fun off the game).

My personal solution to the dilemma was to abuse my C++ knowledge, get the CVS version, and add resurrection, so now I can lose units and don't need to reload, since I always know I could resurrect the unit later (with enough gold) :)

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Elvish_Pillager
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

My preference is to not load and not lose any units either.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.

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Faello
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Post by Faello »

My preference is to not load and not lose any units either.
I suppose, it means that you are restarting scenario every time, when you lose ANY unit ? Every mission must be a"pain in your ass" :?
My personal solution to the dilemma was to abuse my C++ knowledge, get the CVS version, and add resurrection, so now I can lose units and don't need to reload, since I always know I could resurrect the unit later (with enough gold)
Yeah, that's the problem - lack of ressurection ability, takes a lot from this game. When you're taking your favored units through scenarios, you start to think about them as your...companions :D. You're sacrificing other units, just to save your favored warriors - when some of them die, sometimes in really stupid way ( AI uber-rolls are a mystery for me :lol: ), you feel sad - yo don't want to play without your veterans and you...load. Other option is to restart a scenario, but it's really frustrating ( for ex. you're almost finishing difficult scenario, and at the end, your lvl 3 uber-unit dies ...).

I suppose massive loading tactics is partially the fault of... AI units stockpile !

You're training your veteran unit through 2 - 3 scenarios, and suddenly it dies, because of the attack of multiple veteran units of AI, which got them out of nowhere - for ex. Princess of Wesnoth scenario - player is almost flooded by high level infratry, which can easy finish off your knights and wizards ( especially painful is death of elven sorceress - difficult to train on higher level, very good heal ability and so low hp...). If AI had much less elite units, it would be easier to survive the loss of your own veterans :roll:

Imo, difficulty level of the scenarios is adjusted to the averange - loading players - so players, which don't load the mid-game savegames, are in difficult position. But I'm playing now, as the ryn adviced - I restart, when I lose some veteran units - If I lose some lvl 1 units - I don't care.

Game is MUCH MORE difficult, but it gives more pleasure - I'm just curious, which scenario in HttT will take cold blood from me - because, playing in such way, I will lose it sooner or later :wink:
The yellow jester does not play
but gently pulls the strings
and smiles as the puppets dance
in the court of the Crimson King.

(S)elfish weirdo
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Post by (S)elfish weirdo »

Elvish Pillager wrote:My preference is to not load and not lose any units either.
I prefer that too, and restart the scenario when I lose troops, it's fun! anNoying when you lose a unit to bad luck at the end of maps, but it's fun, why didn't you add that as an option when you made the thread?
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Faello
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Post by Faello »

why didn't you add that as an option when you made the thread?
Well, I never thought that anyone would like to restart whole scenario just to save some near-to-0 xp, 1 lvl unit :roll:
The yellow jester does not play
but gently pulls the strings
and smiles as the puppets dance
in the court of the Crimson King.

emile_le_reveil
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Joined: June 11th, 2005, 2:45 pm

Post by emile_le_reveil »

I just voted "to load", because I do it but I don't want to do it! :lol:
I'm just soooo sad when a unit dies :D
I just started a new campaign and said to me: Now I won't save...
Till I've became problems with the "involontarily dismissal" of some
lvl2 units...
But it's the point: If you save you can't play, everyone can do this.
Without saving you have to learn to play tactictally.

So I have to learn and become better that's all 8)

szopen
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Post by szopen »

Well, do we play to take the pleasure, or because we want to feel super-duper-uber-alles tacticians? If I play and then I attack with say Konrad Goblin, and Konrad fails all times while Goblin hits all times and then in next turn all the AI units have hit and kill Konrad, it would just took all the fun away If I had to start again.

I do reload sometimes, if the AI got extremely lucky. I do not when I simply loose a unit - usually there is always another one to replace it. In later game you have so many higher level units that it is to impossible recall them all, anyway.

scott
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Post by scott »

I don't save-load, but if I am unsatisfied with how I played the level (or I lost too many leveled units), I don't have a problem playing the level over from the start.

If my leader dies, I do save-load up to twice. Every video game gives you three lives, right?! Otherwise I just start over.
Hope springs eternal.
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Gafgarion
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Post by Gafgarion »

scott wrote:If my leader dies, I do save-load up to twice. Every video game gives you three lives, right?! Otherwise I just start over.
Haha, I like your logic, scott!
-Gafgarion
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Xanous
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Post by Xanous »

People need to learn the value of 'bait' units. Cheapo lvl 1 units which you leave exposed at the end of your turn for the AI to kill instead of them killing your high level unit.

Flak Target
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Loss of Units

Post by Flak Target »

The thing that has made the loss of units easier for me is that when units reach level three I don't recall them unless I know I will need them. I use maybe one level three per level(marshal, mostly) and recruit a few Lvl2's and bulk cannon fodder. When fodder upgrades I guard it with trash units.
"Happiness Controls You"

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Cuyo Quiz
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

There is always a cheat for infinite or many many MANY lives.

I usually go recalling one or two just to level them for each scenario. Of course this coming form the guy who ended Mages and Elves in like 10 turns going the elite kamikaze way of storming the tower with many lvl 2's and losing two wraiths to the [censored] mage leader, because it should have been one.
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RoddyVR
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Post by RoddyVR »

i encountered this as a problem over the weekend.
the first time i played, i got to about mission 7 or 8 in HttT wihtout a single reload. i think one of hte heroes (konrad or the mage guy) dies once and i had to restart the mission.
but then when i realized that i realy should have been taking more care with the leveled units, and i started over.

this weekend i played through the first 3 missions. and it took all saturday cause i kept reloading or restarting missions. had 4 level 2s after the elves besieged thing, and 2 level 3s (including elf healer) after the second mission.

but it was annoying and basicaly borring.

so i started AGAIN (i like starting from scratch in all games i play, dont know whY). this time only restarting missions, no mid game saves.
got all the way to the island where you find the white mage.
and had to save/load, cause i dont want to lose him, and the dam ghosts keep killing him.
i'm deffinetly getting better at figuring out when to attack/retreat. the whole night/day thing is important. and every once in a while i just have to bite the bullet and risk losing a good unit (and when i consiously risk it , then if it dies, i let it die, no reload).

for those that only reload when the AI gets a real lucky hit (ie 3 of 3 hits on a 40% probability), i have a question for you....
do you reload when one of YOUR units gets a realy lucky hit (like 3 of 3....)?
because if you dont (and i doubt anyone has save/reloaded to give the computer better odds at killing or surviving) then you're not "evening the odds" or "cutting out the uber luck". you're scewing the odds in your favor, just like those that reload every single time there's ANY damage to ANY of htier units. so dont fool yourself.

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