Undead campaign strategy

[miyo]

Dark Adepts are also used in 'Heir to the Throne'... Circon can not decide or do the lowering of required exp. He, or anyone else, can try to convince us that it is needed and does not break the balance.

We do sometimes listen reasoning *grin*

- Miyo

[isaac]

I am now in the second scenario of the undead campaign.

I have just defeated the southwest orc chief, and I have a Lich (Dark Adept, lvl3), two Revenants, a Wraith, two Boneshooters, and two Necromancer (one of them 10px from Lich).

I've defeated tons of Troll whelps, and Orc Fighters with a couple of Blood Bats and the Wraith. The Lich is very powerful and it has level 4...

I'm still fighting hard with the East orcs.

[quartex]

I'm impressed, to have a level 4 units by the second scenario. You must be really good at leveling your units.

[quartex]

A few days ago I was going to post an argument about why dark apprentices (or ar ethey dark adepts?) should have a lowered experience requirement at level 1. However when i compared them to mages I was shocked that they actually had a lower XP requirement than mages, and when I read the post about someone who had a lich by level 3, I realized that maybe the problem was me, and perhaps the XP level was fine where it was.

However I think the gist of my argument still has value. Comparing the units:

Dark adepts 48 xp 30 hp 6-2 ranged attack

Human Mages 52 xp 24 hp 5-1 melee 6-3 ranged attack

Looking at the stats, it does seem that mages aren't any more powerful than dark adepts. Mages have a weak melee attack, but have less hit points. However looking at other undead units, I think that the Dark Adept needs to be made a bit easier to level up (say 40 xp), for two reasons.

1. the other undead creatures are much easier to level up, ghosts or skeleton only 30-35. The mages 48 XP is much more in comparison

2. Right now, the red or white mage is a much stronger unit than the Necromancer, so the reward for leveling up a mage is higher than that of a dark adept. And in general undead first level units seem weaker than human or elven counterparts, which is why it should be a bit easier to level them up.

Currently the necromancer still seems weaker than the white or red mage, so i agree that a lowered XP cost isn't breaking the unit, becuase the reward is still less. And since level 2 ghosts are so powerful compared to necromancers, perhaps the dark adept's XP should be 30 or 35. I'd suggest 36-40, but that's just me. One main reason why the ghost's XP requirement shouldn't be raised is IMO they have trouble doing much damage (especially during the day) and so it is often difficult for them to get kills and gain the 36 XP (or whatever they need) to make level 2.


P.S. Circon, ypou are prohibitied from worrying about balancing the undead until you get back, Enjoy Costa Rica! It's a wonderful and beautiful country.

[fmunoz]

Undead units have way better resistance than level 1 humans.. (holy not computed) so hence weaker melee.
Human mages now need 60xp to advance a level and are more expensive than dark adepts.
Ghouls are included in the game but where not added to multiplayer nor the campaign. More units are planned but as each unit need images Its going to be slow.
Undeads have weaker starting units... balanced with cheap fast flying units and powerfull liches...

[quartex]

I wonder why ghouls were included in the game, but not made part of any campaign. Are they not finished yet?

[fmunoz]

Undead campaign is in "a Fluxing state" as Circon is on holydays...
Only the Heir to the Throne campaign is "really fully" developed by the "main team", people are free to contribute or create their own campaigns...

[Icekiss]

I've just played the second scenario of the undead campaign. It's quite fun. And I was lucky and killed the right guy first. (well, I probably will still have to go back to get more experienced troops )
Level three enemies are a bit difficult though. It is hard to make sure nobody dies, when the enemy can deal 60 damage. Lost one wrath against the orc leader.

[lala]

scenario 2 is going to be much easier if you know that the orcs fight eachother as well. Just let them kill each other. two of the leaders recruit and leave the keep, not to return.

I went south-west with the lich (or wraith?) and a bat and later on skeletons to the leader that stayed on his keep.

[RavenBlack]

I don't think the undead are weak (though I haven't tried playing them yet, I've just experienced their sharp end) - they seem weak by the immediately displayed numbers, but their widespread resistance to piercing attacks and partial resistance to bladed attacks makes them pretty formidable - skeletons kick the arses of horsemen and archers, and have a decent chance when taking on fighters too. In the elf campaign I ended up forced to resort to a huge pile of mages to make my way through the skeletons on the second level of undead.

Undead are in trouble when the paladins arrive, but that's really as it should be, isn't it?

[kmj]

I don't think undead are weak either, given a cost 11 flying creature, vampire bats.. this helps you get out ghosts early, another (relatively) cheap flying creature. Combined with the generally good resistances of undead and the fact that walking dead (yeah, really just xp fodder) and vampire bats (not quite xp fodder, since they gain hp when they hit and can fly away to heal at a town ... I can just see some vampire bat stopping in at the local hospital) cost nothing to upkeep... undead can be a powerful force.