Elves vs. Orcs on a map without much forest

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The_Gnat
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Elves vs. Orcs on a map without much forest

Post by The_Gnat » November 17th, 2017, 8:04 pm

I want to proceed to a very specific situation, but before i do that i was wondering what units are recommended when it is Elves vs. Northerners and the map has not much forest. The reason i ask is because i am wondering (generically) if anyone thinks the Elves can beet the Northerners in a situation like this. Are there certain units that you think the elves could purchase that would allow the elves to have a even battle where tactics determine the winner.

The reason i ask is because in an era i have made i have a slight variation elves vs. northerners (which i will describe in more detail soon) and i am wondering if the unbalance is in my era or if the elves start with a serious disadvantage if they do not have forest?

I look forward to hearing your suggestions and comments :D

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_Queen_
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Re: Elves vs. Orcs on a map without much forest

Post by _Queen_ » November 17th, 2017, 8:38 pm

I've heard: elves on flat equals death elves. Elves have low HP and without terrain which would give them high defence they are easy targets. Maybe at day that won't mean a lot, because this is the moment when elves should attack and leave better terrain, but at night they will have nowhere to hide.

Bonne defense in such a situation would be using slower, cheaper and with good melee attack Fighters, but still they will die fast. Shamans and Archers can hide behind or run. But if they will be caught on flat, two Grunts can easly take them down.

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ElderofCheese
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Re: Elves vs. Orcs on a map without much forest

Post by ElderofCheese » November 17th, 2017, 10:09 pm

Yes, they can. Forest is not a must for the elves for them to be able to win. It is rather a buff to elves (maybe saurians a bit too), a boon that is not usually necessary for them to have a chance. That is a general answer.
@Elder but we have asked for the disclosure of all the cheese and we treat it seriously. Everyone on this site can get banned, everyone.
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The_Gnat
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Re: Elves vs. Orcs on a map without much forest

Post by The_Gnat » November 17th, 2017, 10:15 pm

ElderofZion wrote:Yes, they can. Forest is not a must for the elves for them to be able to win. It is rather a buff to elves (maybe saurians a bit too), a boon that is not usually necessary for them to have a chance. That is a general answer.
Okay, good to know. I personally was unable to beet the orcs with the elves. What units do you recommend?
_Queen_ wrote:I've heard: elves on flat equals death elves. Elves have low HP and without terrain which would give them high defence they are easy targets. Maybe at day that won't mean a lot, because this is the moment when elves should attack and leave better terrain, but at night they will have nowhere to hide.
Thanks for responding, yes that is what i have experienced also. I will try again with more melee high hp units and see what i can do. :)

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ElderofCheese
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Re: Elves vs. Orcs on a map without much forest

Post by ElderofCheese » November 17th, 2017, 10:48 pm

A lot of fighters mainly, you can also add 1 or 2 archers later, and a mage or 2 if you have to retake your village of if you want to attack later
@Elder but we have asked for the disclosure of all the cheese and we treat it seriously. Everyone on this site can get banned, everyone.
@Elder ale prosiliśmy o wyjawianie wszystkich serów i traktujemy to poważnie. Każdy na tej stronie może zostać zbanowany, każdy.

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Poison
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Re: Elves vs. Orcs on a map without much forest

Post by Poison » November 18th, 2017, 2:15 am

Imho (having played just sp and observed mp only) fighters fare rather well on flat, but the rest of the units, not so much. The orcish archer would probably be better on flat than the elvish one because he is cheaper and will also get the strong and resillient traits more often (since he doesn't have dextrous -both better traits for defense). I'm kinda in the middle between you guys, the forest in not just a buff, they kinda need it, but it's not the end of the world if they not have it. I would go with fighter spam too btw.
Last edited by Poison on November 18th, 2017, 5:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Elves vs. Orcs on a map without much forest

Post by The_Gnat » November 18th, 2017, 4:14 am

Poison wrote:Imho (having played just sp and observed mp only) fighters fare rather well on flat, but the rest of the units, not so much. The orcish archer would probably be better on flat than the elvish one because he is cheaper and will also get the strong and resillient traits more often (since he doesn't have dextrous -both better traits for defense). I'm kinda in the middle between you guys, the forest in not just a buff, they kinda need it, but it's not the end of the world if they not have it. I would go with fighter spam too btw.
ElderofZion wrote:A lot of fighters mainly, you can also add 1 or 2 archers later, and a mage or 2 if you have to retake your village of if you want to attack later
Okay thank you! It is great to get feedback (and so quickly!) :D I will tell you how it turns out after i have played a few different maps.

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ElvishMystical
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Re: Elves vs. Orcs on a map without much forest

Post by ElvishMystical » March 29th, 2018, 4:12 pm

I'm experienced in SP but have watched MP games. I've beaten Orcs with Elves, even as a noob when I was a much worse player but I don't see there being too much of a mismatch.

I'm not sure where people get the idea that Orcs are stronger on flat than Elves or that Elves on flat are dead. The difference in terrain defence isn't all that, even in forests and on hills and mountains. In fact Elves are stronger in water or on frozen but terrain is only one variable. There's also unit composition, the type of units - as both factions are completely different, time of day and the Random Number Generator.

For sure Orcs do have some advantages which are clear - they're cheap, melee orientated, chaotic, but they don't have the consistency, coordination or flexibility of the Elves. Orcish Archers are good, but they need Orcish Grunts for protection, Troll Whelps to back up the Grunts, and Assassins to poison opponents. Neither the two melee units have a ranged attack, they only hit twice, and even though they deal 12-2 or thereabouts Orcish Grunts aren't that consistent.

Elves on the other hand come with both melee and ranged, the Elvish Fighter is a solid combat unit. The Elvish Archer is for me the best ranged combat unit in the game. You can get up to 7-4 with a bow, 6-2 with a sword, and once it levels you get either the marksman ability or an extra melee hit and the ambush ability.

What you also have is flexibility and freedom to counter different situations. Orcs are like the Undead, they come after you at night and they hit harder at night than during the day. The problem is of course that taking out a Troll Whelp or Orcish Grunt at night can take a few Archers, but with a single Elvish Shaman and just one ranged hit you can slow an Orcish Grunt to hit like a Troll Whelp and a Troll Whelp to hit like a Footpad.

I would recruit more or more as a priority Shamen in place of Archers. Then you have the question of Elvish Scouts. Personally I use them as a back up to Elvish Fighters, they're good at slowing or stopping Wolf Riders or luring Orcish Archers away from where you don't want them to be.

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Sudipta
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Re: Elves vs. Orcs on a map without much forest

Post by Sudipta » April 1st, 2018, 10:40 am

Hmmm, out of all the opinions, i agree with elderofzion the most. Elves are my most favorite race and i believe them to be the best overall. I don't think a good elf player would be in trouble against orcs even without forests. They have hands down the best ranged fighting power, they have a very solid elvish fighter line with good melee and ranged attack, and they have the shaman line which is awesome especially when they level up. Add in the fact that they are neutral alignment, and thus can kick ass any time of the day. If u can avoid excess fighting at night, then u should be able to wipe out the enemy during the 2 day turns and the 2 twilight turns. The main drawback is that elvish scouts are mostly a waste of gold, especially in tight situations.
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Computer_Player
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Re: Elves vs. Orcs on a map without much forest

Post by Computer_Player » May 1st, 2018, 3:03 am

The trick is to realize that you can begin attacking even in 2nd Watch if the situation is favorable (i.e. localized numbers imbalace etc).

Even without forest, there is still terrain that could take advantage of, even just countour of the land.

Mages would most probably be for anti-troll ops (since I distrust non forest wose vs orcs)

P.S. 1 shaman at the most, the more you get shaman (or other units for that matter) the less fighters you have which is bad

Migouste
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Re: Elves vs. Orcs on a map without much forest

Post by Migouste » June 5th, 2018, 10:20 am

You need archers against ranged orcs units and soldiers against ranged ones, and which are a bit more robust, so better at exposed positions.

Little forest isn't no forest at all. Try to make a fine line of elves on trees, hills and vilages. While forcing orcs to fight on lands they dont like. Plains and water.

Keep an eye on th xp jauge... And try to get a capitain to help upgrading the other lvl1 units.

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