kiss training ground - (TSG-AOI) - Heir to the Throne

Post by **beetlenaut** » September 27th, 2014, 9:35 pm

That's very cool! I will definitely use it. I would love to see some images that could be brought up on the right side where they are easier to read and don't interfere with the orb too. The horn would be perfect for that. There are four overlays in Dead Water that you could use as well if you want: /data/campaigns/Dead_Water/images/overlays

kiss · Post by **kiss** » September 28th, 2014, 5:46 pm

Paulomat4 wrote:
I mean a tag glued on the unit and moving with it.
This can't be done by the user, only the campaign designer. It has been requested before, and some developers thought it was a good idea, but nobody has created it yet. There are lots of features like that, but developers the are all volunteers, so they only code what they want.
I coded this as add-on. I just didn't upload it to 1.11 yet because I wanted to make a greater overhaul.
Just place this folder into your add-on folder and restart wesnoth. That adds a right-klick menu into every campaign. Pm me if you have suggestions about it!

Really nice feature. Far better than anything I've ever dream of.
I've noticed its own thread. Should we report feedback there?

Perfect timing too, I was about to restart the campaign.

Post by **beetlenaut** » September 28th, 2014, 6:07 pm

kiss wrote:I was about to restart the campaign.

Really? Aren't you bored with this campaign yet? Why don't you do something new like AOI? It was made to help people learn tactics. (I would start it at normal. Beginner would be too easy.)

Post by **Paulomat4** » September 28th, 2014, 8:35 pm

That's very cool! I will definitely use it.

thanks

I would love to see some images that could be brought up on the right side where they are easier to read and don't interfere with the orb too. The horn would be perfect for that. There are four overlays in Dead Water that you could use as well if you want: /data/campaigns/Dead_Water/images/overlays

that quite an idea. I prefer Overlays that do not interfere with the baseimage of the unit. that's why I tried to use overlays that are similar to the loyal and hero overlay. But Tastes are different, so I will add the Overlays you named when I upload it to 1.11.6

I've noticed its own thread. Should we report feedback there?

Yes I think that would be better. I didn't want to hijack your thread

I was about to restart the campaign.
Really? Aren't you bored with this campaign yet? Why don't you do something new like AOI? It was made to help people learn tactics. (I would start it at normal. Beginner would be too easy.)

really, I think that would be appropriate. I would go nuts replaying the same thing over and over

EDIT: the appropriate feedback topic would be here http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=39771

kiss · Post by **kiss** » September 29th, 2014, 7:15 am

beetlenaut wrote: Aren't you bored with this campaign yet?
Paulomat4 wrote: I would go nuts replaying the same thing over and over

Sure, it was when I was trying to build template. I used to keep one result and played the following scenario with it, again and again, based only on loyal advancement. But it was an illusion.
AI doesn't draw the same units. In some case you can easily achieve your goal, in other it is far most difficult. Also, depending your team, you can't have exactly the same play and AI react accordingly.

I'm now learning to deal with that. What if you lose Ylla, Jarek, and 3 Peasant?

It is also the reason why I'm starting to search out which unit to feed? Until now I doesn't care, feed loyal and keep such result. But when the loyal is not here anymore? Resign?

Whatever, starting with AOI will be the same, because I'll play as I'm doing now. No analysis scenario by scenario until having the good result.

I modify the first post and title thread, no need to open an other one now.

Post by **beetlenaut** » September 29th, 2014, 8:04 am

It sounds like you are trying to play a perfect game and never lose an important unit. Believe me, scenario designers don't expect that. You are expected to lose some important, high-level units, and still be able to win. Even loyal units.

You should be able to completely finish AOI in four or five hours of playing. I hope you are not planning to take a month or two. You can play however you want, but I think you will have more fun if you play it fast. I think you are causing yourself stress by trying to be perfect.

kiss · Post by **kiss** » September 30th, 2014, 1:51 pm

beetlenaut wrote:It sounds like you are trying to play a perfect game and never lose an important unit. Believe me, scenario designers don't expect that. You are expected to lose some important, high-level units, and still be able to win. Even loyal units.

You should be able to completely finish AOI in four or five hours of playing. I hope you are not planning to take a month or two. You can play however you want, but I think you will have more fun if you play it fast. I think you are causing yourself stress by trying to be perfect.

I'd needed to search for the perfect play in a way. My way to learn, may I say? Doing this I've been able to concentrate on other parts of the game.
I've learned a lot doing it, but as soon as I've wanted play the whole TSG campaign, I've discovered I was wrong. All comes from "Into the Depths", when I've played badly against Eyetalk and thought I was unable to do something even with my promoted heroes. I've redone, without problem. I've probably used ranged attack with my archers ... which was an awful idea!

What about AOI now?
Month surely no, but more than a few hours. Again, I've been in front of new problems. And my first attempts were horrible. I've watched some replay and discovered I wasn't careful to terrain.
I've restarted, it was better, but always something wrong. Too weak, no time, no money ...
I've fixed money first, using only new level 1, but it was too hard after some scenario. They were killed too easily. Then power by advancing a lot of units, but money lack comes back! While doing that, I've noticed I wasn't able to keep Scout nor Archer alive, even after advancement.
I've restart with only Fighter and Shamann, but had to get back recruit new ones. You talked about that, and I've seen some "only Shamann" replay, but the most important is I had to keep an eye on my gold to do that.

Here we are.
Perhaps it is difficult to understand I've spent so much time to integrate in my gameplay what I was told. But ...

Whatever, some replay, some reading, useful comments from all of you, a lot of tries and I've finished AOI.
I won't provide replays, because I don't remember if I've used redo or not, I think no. Some restart for sure, but my gameplay is now efficient in that campaign and should be in other too.

I think I've fixed some of my lacks, and do a great jump ahead. I still need more practice of course, but ...

Thank you very much.

I have a question, the feeling that day time not only modify damage amount but also chance to hit. A dream?

Post by **beetlenaut** » September 30th, 2014, 5:47 pm

kiss wrote:While doing that, I've noticed I wasn't able to keep Scout nor Archer alive, even after advancement.

Scouts aren't really meant for combat, but for collecting villages and seeing through fog. However, archers are great combat units! They are ridiculously hard to hit--as long as they stay on forest tiles. On flat, they disappear in a hurry, so you have to be careful about terrain. Elves are more terrain dependent than loyalists, which it seems like you might have noticed. (Actually, you should always pay close attention to terrain, which is one of the most important lessons to learn in BfW.)

kiss wrote:I have a question, the feeling that day time not only modify damage amount but also chance to hit.

No, time of day does not change chance to hit.

kiss wrote:I've finished AOI.

Great! Time for HttT in my opinion. It's a lot of peoples' favorite, and you eventually get to build an army with a huge number of unit types.

kiss · Post by **kiss** » October 1st, 2014, 2:08 pm

beetlenaut wrote:Great! Time for HttT in my opinion. It's a lot of peoples' favorite, and you eventually get to build an army with a huge number of unit types.

Mmmmm, I was on AOI again.
Before restarting, I've watched my previous replay and doesn't believed it was mine.
I'm too greedy with it now, I can't win "Linaera the Quick", I always want more instead of staying calm! This map isn't that easy, you can make a lot of bad moves and lose.

Here are 4 scenario I've played.:

I think your idea is fine for me now, switching campaign as soon as something goes wrong. After all, each one is different and learning something in one should help for the other.

I was also thinking about HttT, let's see how far I can go now ... Konrad, I'm back!

Post by **beetlenaut** » October 1st, 2014, 4:06 pm

Your replays are good. You look like you know what you are doing now.

Two things: You spend a lot of time firing arrows at units that can't retaliate--with fighters. Archers would do more than twice as much damage. Of course archers need some fighters for protection, but you shouldn't ignore them. The other thing: you had a marshal later, but weren't using its leadership much. You should have recalled it early to increase the damage of your level-1 units.

kiss · Post by **kiss** » October 3rd, 2014, 10:30 am

Thank you.

Well, I've started HttT, on easy mode, to refresh my mind from the beginning.

At the end of "Bay of Pearls" I choose the other path "Muff Malls Peninsula". I haven't started it, but it seems easier than the other. I'll should have choosen this one the first time!

Whatever, to access branches, I replay the last turn before a choice? Is there an other way? Can we have both files generated?

kiss · Post by **kiss** » October 8th, 2014, 9:11 am

beetlenaut wrote:You spend a lot of time firing arrows at units that can't retaliate--with fighters...

I've started to use archer, but they're still difficult to manage for me.
Sometime, I chose the best damage under the last xp, to reduce xp and to feed a chosen unit.

beetlenaut wrote:... you had a marshal later, but weren't using its leadership much...

Yep, I forgot!

My memory is up to date.
I've replayed the campaign until "Princess of Wesnoth" but with a lot of restart and redo! I don't spend as time as before, only try team or strategy.
Muff Malal's Peninsula isn't so easy, depending your team you can be overwhelmed and lose a lot.
I've also tried to find a good start and I have to say I failed. Each time, my main fight is to be able to get few xp!

When I've started to play, I've don't realized. Only a strange feeling of too much unit at the end. Now I find that managing a large army is difficult. The edge between too much or not enough unit is thin and there is always something to disturb your advancement planning.

HttT part 1 to 4 from scratch.:

No idea if this is good enough or not!
Now I have to spend some time on Isle of the Damned before going on. I chose it because It gives a greater reward than MMP.
I've looked at my first replay, I've found it was a disaster on time and there is some errors, but it wasn't that bad. What I've tried had sense.

Edit to add part 5
Well this is how I've done for this one.
I've followed the same whole strategy as for my first attempt but focused on center's control. From there I've tried to kill both lich.
North one with only Moremiru, no more support were available, and south one with my loyals Merman. I kill both but all heroes dies or ends in awful shape.
This time, I read a little what was said around, and, well, a useful unit I've never though about was here: Initiate!
The whole puzzle was solved and I restart from the beginning.

Here is the result:

Finally, Initiate wasn't that useful and perhaps should I have mixed with Hunter. Next time perhaps?

kiss · Post by **kiss** » October 11th, 2014, 4:12 pm

Well, I've reached the last scenario I've ever win during my first try.
The next one, "Princess of Wesnoth", is between what I've done here and the discovery. I wont prepare each game session anymore and entered an unknown part.

I've made some experiments in the last two replay. Some worth a closer attention, some doesn't seems to be good ideas.
I still have a lot of difficulty to keep any kind of archer alive . When I use them they die, else they do not get involved in fight!
Horseman too are not that easy to master. Their strength can vanish in a slap.
Leading an army with so much capabilities, what a headache!

The last two replay:

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