Keeping Mages alive

zwol · Post by **zwol** » December 14th, 2003, 6:44 am

My mages always get killed before they manage to level up. So far I've mostly been able to do without them. But on Isle of the Damned, the enemy commanders (liches) drain life from attacking units so effectively that I don't see any way to kill them without white mages.

Can anyone suggest tactics for keeping mages alive and simultaneously getting them enough experience to level up? Particularly against undead opposition.

Thanks,
zw

yawningdog · Post by **yawningdog** » December 14th, 2003, 9:52 am

The only effective way of leveling up "pitiful" units I have found so far is through killing blows. Try to cripple the enemy with some of your fighters until it has just a few hitpoints left. Then finish the job with your mage, and he'll get most of the experience (yes, it may be unfair, but it works like this).

Same goes for shamans and other "non-combatant" units.

The Bay of perls is a good scenario to level up your mages. Their magical attack comes in handy on water, as they'll retain their 70% chance to hit while other units drop to a miserable 30%. Try to roast some Nagas and you should get one or two White/Red mages without much fuss.

I don't recall any scenario called "Isle of the damned"; talking generally though, paladins, with their holy sword attack, are also good against undead (liches for the matter); and Champions can cut through almost anything.

methinks · Post by **methinks** » December 14th, 2003, 11:23 am

well it is quite eassy whe you try. i would start trying on the 2bd scenario though but perhaps there is possibility of giving a finakl blow with your mage on 1st one. just as it was said before, go with 2-3 figheters/archers, ALMOST kill enemy and finish it off with mage, about 4 kills should suffice. The matter of this being fair was discussed before but all exept from me and Borsuk thought it was ok so it stays.
Anywya if you try it is pretty easy to have 1-2 mages on the isle of anduin already.

Kamahawk · Post by **Kamahawk** » December 14th, 2003, 3:43 pm

Mages and horsemen aren't available untill the second level.

zwol · Post by **zwol** » December 14th, 2003, 6:42 pm

All, thanks for the tips. I was aware of the 'final blow' trick. My usual problem is that I get a mage up to 15-20 xp, but only by putting him on the front lines. Then a powerful enemy unit can move over and squish him during the AI's attack phase.

yawningdog, Isle of the Damned is new in 0.6: there's a branch point immediately after Bay of Pearls. It's particularly difficult because Konrad is not allowed to recall units.

methinks · Post by **methinks** » December 14th, 2003, 6:53 pm

zwol wrote:yawningdog, Isle of the Damned is new in 0.6: there's a branch point immediately after Bay of Pearls. It's particularly difficult because Konrad is not allowed to recall units.

COOL, only new units. Well I am happy that I've managed to advance KOnrad, heh may become useful

I am playing Bay of Pearls now. It is kinda harder now I have lost many more merpeople than before. Maybe because now I have decided to early release mermen kept farthest south and get trident at once. Well, also Isle of Anduin is now HELL to easy so I got less good units (enemy have had less units, I think prev. difficulty of Isle of Anduin was alright, I am playing on easy)

Post by **Dave** » December 14th, 2003, 7:11 pm

Bay of Pearls is no longer a good scenario for leveling mages up, imo -- the sea orc gets lots of bats, and they are very annoying. To most units, they aren't so bad, but for mages they are fatal: as few as two bats can swoop down, and wipe out your mage.

People should note that Bay of Pearls now has different scenario objectives to previously, although how you win determines the next scenario you move onto.

Isle of the Damned has had NO balance or playtesting, so feedback on it is welcome. You get to keep any units you get on Isle of the Damned, so it is used as a scenario with which to get new 2nd level units.

David

Integral · Post by **Integral** » December 14th, 2003, 10:37 pm

zwol wrote:My mages always get killed before they manage to level up. So far I've mostly been able to do without them. But on Isle of the Damned, the enemy commanders (liches) drain life from attacking units so effectively that I don't see any way to kill them without white mages.

How did you get to the enemy commanders? I ran out of time before I managed to get through the hordes of ghosts and skeletons.

Daniel

zwol · Post by **zwol** » December 14th, 2003, 11:23 pm

Dave wrote:Isle of the Damned has had NO balance or playtesting, so feedback on it is welcome. You get to keep any units you get on Isle of the Damned, so it is used as a scenario with which to get new 2nd level units.

The biggest balance problem I've noticed so far is that the southern commander endlessly recruits vampire bats and sends them north to grab villages. When attacked, they fly away to different villages to heal. This means Konrad has a very hard time holding on to enough villages to maintain an army large enough to deal with the northern commander's army (never mind the vampire bats!) I haven't even attempted to go after the southern commander yet. I mean to try some different tactics on this level, but I can't spend all weekend playing the game

Integral wrote:How did you get to the enemy commanders? I ran out of time before I managed to get through the hordes of ghosts and skeletons.

I divided my forces, and sent one group to the southern side of the mountains to draw the ghosts and skeletons. Meantime I had scouts and mermen run for the northern castle, avoiding combat. Managed to get four units attacking the lich, but he'd just drain off all their life to heal himself.

methinks · Post by **methinks** » December 14th, 2003, 11:45 pm

Well, yeah Isle of the Damned sucks... Needs rebalancing though I have to play it more to tell sth. It is rather easy to survive but I cannot imagine killing both leaders(note: as ussualy I am playing easy) and I didn' manage to kill northern one. I have played without any saving and I decided "eh I have this ranger and friggin champion, let's fry this [censored]". Well I have lost ranger and champion, though I have managed to save before attacking with 2nd one. It is great loss as I have only managed to level up 2 suckers. Also I do not know what unit shall be stron enough to kill northern leader. Bah. I am tired going to bed now.

Post by **Dave** » December 15th, 2003, 6:09 am

methinks wrote:It is rather easy to survive but I cannot imagine killing both leaders(note: as ussualy I am playing easy)

Well being relatively easy to survive but difficult to kill the enemy leaders is the intent of this scenario.

We will add something extra cool if you do manage to kill them though.

David

telex4 · Post by **telex4** » December 15th, 2003, 7:49 am

I thought the map was OK, though I did learn just how hard it is to kill a liche without white mages, losing quite a few units until I realised I only needed to survive for two more rounds so I backed off

Maybe cut down on the vampire bats though! There didn't seem any way of holding down enough villages to make a big enough army to fend off the northern enemies whilst making a big quick push to defeat the southern guy, which, if you could do it in time, would give you enough cash to wipe out the liche in the north. Maybe I'm just bad at the game

methinks · Post by **methinks** » December 15th, 2003, 10:51 am

I will attentd to lead a sudden crushing attack on the northern guy but I do not think it is rather possible. Elvish fighters do not damage him much and it is one healthy [censored] and Elvish Archers die very quickly, most likely while attacking for first time. I have surrounded this guy with my 5 units but he had lik 2/3 or more HP left and smashed half of my attackers leaving the other half badly wounded. Southern enemy is easier to kill, though harder to get there. Mybe I will try my mermen though on land they mostly suck. What about an extra trident there, huh?

elseth · Post by **elseth** » December 16th, 2003, 8:49 pm

This map didn't seem that difficult to me...

What I did was hired a mass of ground troops to claim as many land villages as I could and then a couple mermen to claim the southern sea villages. Don't underestimate how much these water villages can help as they not only provide you with income but also distract the bats and lure them to your mermen trap =)

Now, while your main troops are fighting skeletons and other nasties on the land, you can send a few elves to the southern coast and they can easily fight off any stray bats that the southern leader sends to claim villages. At this point you should have isolated both leaders and claimed all central villages and the southern sea villages. Now you can sweep around the coasts with your mermen and claim coastal villages while pushing in towards the leaders with your land troops.

theflamingchicken · Post by **theflamingchicken** » March 18th, 2004, 10:26 pm

Dave wrote: Isle of the Damned has had NO balance or playtesting, so feedback on it is welcome. You get to keep any units you get on Isle of the Damned, so it is used as a scenario with which to get new 2nd level units.
David

I was playing this level in release: 0.6.99.4, and for the first turn or two it said that Konrad can't recall his units, but eventually (5th turn?) it let me recall them. So, I beat that level in a hurry.

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