The "wall" defense

Share and discuss strategies for playing the game, and get help and tips from other players.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
Yomar
Posts: 286
Joined: October 27th, 2011, 5:14 am
Contact:

The "wall" defense

Post by Yomar » May 19th, 2014, 3:13 pm

Some time ago I was watching a match btw 2 player, the game gone on for a while, at a certain point I noticed that the Knagla player became almost invulnerable, because at some point he had a lot of dwarwish guardsman, when the enemy tried to attack him he had a formation so that he could not be attacked by more than 2 units at the same guardsman, the few times that they could be attacked by 3 units is when he placed him on mountains to complete is defensive formation.
Every time the Knagla gone on attack, if the attack failed he just covered the weak unit with guardsmans.

Idk maybe the size advantaged the Knagla player, because at some point he could cover with a good defense the whole map.
Both players where playing enough well, Idk who won in the end, because I had to leave before they ended, but on about every 3 turns the Dwarves managed to kill an enemy player and then retreat to heal, covered by the guardsmans, and rotating them, if one would go too wounded.

Any toughs ?
Do the game gets a bit unbalanced with a lot of units ?
Do certain standard maps favor some factions ? I remember that the map was not too big and with hills and mountains on strategical spots, but I think that happens on every map also with forests.

Any suggestions of how to counter a strategy like that, to be honest Idk how I would have reacted, maybe recruiting skirmishers, if I had a faction with some avaiable, but you still need a "hole" in the enemy defense to use them, using a "high damage" leader and with some luck to kill a guardsman and make "crack" in the defense maybe ?

Velensk
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 3984
Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Re: The "wall" defense

Post by Velensk » May 19th, 2014, 4:41 pm

Although I've seen what you're saying it's really hard to actually answer your question without a replay. In just about every situation there's something a player could have done differently that would help them gain control and that includes breaking a knalgan defense. Every faction has ways to do it except other knalgans.

I don't think the game gets all that unbalanced as units start stacking however there is a potential to stalemate depending on how both players play, especially if one player is knalgans.

The mainline maps are pretty well balanced but naturally maps of varying sorts will encourage different playstyles (this is part of the reason there are many). Some maps are more inclined to stalemate, some make it easier or harder to make an impression with an opening gambit.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

User avatar
Dixie
Posts: 1756
Joined: February 10th, 2010, 1:06 am
Location: $x1,$y1

Re: The "wall" defense

Post by Dixie » May 19th, 2014, 6:56 pm

Note that I'm really not a pro and also I haven't seen the map or the players in action. Against such a strategy, and depending on the faction I was playing, I think I'd try to get a few fast units, out-maneuver the slow dwarves and cut their income. The more units you have on the field, the more costly. Steal its villages and the dwarven wall quickly becomes a financial hindrance...
Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny - Frank Zappa
Current projects: Internet meme Era, The Settlers of Wesnoth

Yomar
Posts: 286
Joined: October 27th, 2011, 5:14 am
Contact:

Re: The "wall" defense

Post by Yomar » May 20th, 2014, 3:52 pm

You know Velensk in my opinion the fact that Knagla are slow is more a myth than a real thing, they have Griffins that are not slowed by most of the terrains and can in this way slip behind enemy lines and steal villages, if someone finds them too expensive, its always possible to recruit footpats that can be fast as horses but are less expensive, even thiefs are fast, and they get the skirmish ability at lv.2.
When I play I use them successfully to steal villages, they are also good at holding villages cause the high defense (70%), anyway they have just to resit till the guardsman reaches it to take his place, so he will be free to steal others :P .
Btw, saurs are good village stealer too, but Drakes miss the option of an effective village securing unit, Knagla have Guardsmans, but the best option for Drakes most of the time is the Drake Clasher, that has about the same HP as a Guardsman, but has lower defense and less resistances.

So here is a new questions for beginners too, what units do you use usually as village holders for the various races, yes depends also of the enemy, but in general ?
Because I think that almost every faction has various options, for example I would say:
Loyals better Spearman or Heavy Infantry for village defense ?
Elves better Elvish Fighter or Wose
Undeads better a skeleton, Ghost or Ghoul
Northerns: Grunt (especially if resistant and strong >:) ), Troll whelp or Or maybe the Orcish Assassin cause the high defense.
Dwarves: Mostly Guardsman, but fighters or footpads can be used too.
Drakes: Clasher or Saurian Skirmisher.

Velensk
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 3984
Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Re: The "wall" defense

Post by Velensk » May 20th, 2014, 9:05 pm

I never said anything about knalgans being slow (that was dixie). That said, obviously if you sink a lot of money into guardsmen then a sizable portion of your army will be very slow and deal little damage.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

User avatar
Dixie
Posts: 1756
Joined: February 10th, 2010, 1:06 am
Location: $x1,$y1

Re: The "wall" defense

Post by Dixie » May 20th, 2014, 9:50 pm

Velensk wrote:[...] obviously if you sink a lot of money into guardsmen then a sizable portion of your army will be very slow and deal little damage.
My thoughts exactly. Also, gryphon riders are indeed fast, but they're also pretty expensive...

As for your second question, it depends on a lot of factors, but I'd say you are right with Loyalists, Dwarves & Drakes. For undead, ghouls are often favored because of the strong deterrent a poison melee attack represents. For Rebels & Northies, I'd avoid woses and trolls, as their defense gain from villages is almost negligible and (most importantly) they already have regeneration anyway. Better keep them for non-village strategic terrain instead (forests for woses & hills/mountains for trolls).
Last edited by Dixie on May 21st, 2014, 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny - Frank Zappa
Current projects: Internet meme Era, The Settlers of Wesnoth

Yomar
Posts: 286
Joined: October 27th, 2011, 5:14 am
Contact:

Re: The "wall" defense

Post by Yomar » May 21st, 2014, 7:21 am

Sorry Velensk, and yes good consideration, if I remember well Guardsman costs like a Loyal horseman, like 17Gp I think, not to expensive either, for sure they are more durable than horses :P.
Thx for sharing your toughs Dixie.

User avatar
Oflameo
Posts: 15
Joined: January 31st, 2012, 12:17 am

Re: The "wall" defense

Post by Oflameo » June 7th, 2014, 6:00 pm

I would deal with a wall of dwarwish guardsman by recruiting mages or something that poisons or slows. I would probably start to attack something other than the group of guardsmen until they break formation to respond quicker. Then I will pick them off one at a time. :twisted:

Battlecruiser_Venca
Posts: 196
Joined: June 3rd, 2009, 11:37 am
Contact:

Re: The "wall" defense

Post by Battlecruiser_Venca » June 10th, 2014, 2:31 pm

Drakes can use Burners to defend a village too as they retailate well against almost everything but they're very costly. Ther best defense with drakes is to leave that hex empty by making a trap there so taking that village would result a great risk.

Post Reply