The First Actions

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Carrow
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The First Actions

Post by Carrow » May 6th, 2014, 2:02 pm

I was playing HttT Campaign last night, a handful of missions into it. (The one you are surrounded by three undead enemies.) The first action I took in the mission, aside from surveying my surroundings for cover and such, was to start to recruit or recall my troops.
This specific scenario seemed quite desperate to me because I am a new player, and I knew I was going to get hit from three sides. Taking that into account, I recalled all my best units from the previous missions and moved them to the western edge of the map with the intent of moving north then north-east to slay the northern leader with little resistance. Afterwards recruiting some Fighters to hold off the rear, then holding out in the defeated enemy's castle until time runs out.
In this particular scenario there was no fog of war, so I knew I was safe to push my strong units first and backing up with weaker units.

Putting aside any strategy I thought of in this mission, the first actions got me thinking of general game strategy.
Is it recommended to recruit new units first, recall your better units first, or is this a decision that depends on situation and the general strategy you are trying to achieve?
Obviously a lot of factors can determine the first actions you decide to take, but the first actions on a small map can give you the upper hand early on.

Thoughts?
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max_torch
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Re: The First Actions

Post by max_torch » May 6th, 2014, 4:06 pm

Words of wisdom from another thread:
Velensk wrote:This is my rule of thumb: The harder the campaign, the more important gold is as opposed to keeping leveled units.

The reason for this is pretty simple, the harder the campaign, generally the more enemies are being thrown at you and thus the easier it is to advance units and replace leveled units. Therefore as long as you're constantly recruiting your reserves will grow from the survivors. On the other hand, you can be seriously limited by lack of gold. You cannot let yourself get into the situation where you come into a scenario with 100 gold (or whatever minimum is) and look at the opposition and say 'well, there's no way I can beat that without 5 level 3s. And then proceed by a combination of skill and not getting unlucky to scrape your way through the scenario but as you didn't have extra units to raid villages, and for those 5 units you were paying 15 upkeep a turn you don't go into the next one with much more than minimum gold either. This leads to situations where hundreds of experience points are lost on units that really can't use them and the player has to sit around trying to keep every unit alive in a game that really isn't designed for that (play Fire Emblem if you want a game designed for sentimental attachment).

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Carrow
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Re: The First Actions

Post by Carrow » May 6th, 2014, 4:41 pm

Those are indeed wise words. Thank you!

Small powerful force < Larger balanced army
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Re: The First Actions

Post by beetlenaut » May 7th, 2014, 1:42 am

High-level units cost 2 or 3 per turn in upkeep, and it adds up fast. If you recall them first, you will be taking a gold hit before you have a chance to pick up any villages. If you know you want some lower level troops anyway, it's usually best to recruit them first. It will often save you enough gold to get an extra unit or two, which could make the difference between winning and losing.
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Re: The First Actions

Post by max_torch » May 7th, 2014, 6:03 am

There are special cases though where it may be good to recall high level units right away at the start:
--> Sometimes I am recalling right away units that are 2 or 1 xp from levelling because I plan to utilize the full heal from level up in a 'rush' tactic and get a quick win.
-->Also sometimes certain pairs of or combos of levelled units are overpowered which can be used for leader assassination strategies: like sylph/shyde combos, or grand knight/paladin pairs or a bunch of avengers, bunch of silver mages, squad of gryphon masters.. these guys are quick, flying or have some quirk like ambush or teleport and can take down the enemy leader while a bunch of cannon fodder/ distraction units draw the attention of the enemy forces. You should try assassination sometimes its fun..
But the point of these abovementioned tactics is for trying to get a huge early gold bonus

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Re: The First Actions

Post by TheCripple » May 7th, 2014, 9:02 am

max_torch wrote:Also sometimes certain pairs of or combos of levelled units are overpowered which can be used for leader assassination strategies: like sylph/shyde combos, or grand knight/paladin pairs or a bunch of avengers, bunch of silver mages, squad of gryphon masters.. these guys are quick, flying or have some quirk like ambush or teleport and can take down the enemy leader while a bunch of cannon fodder/ distraction units draw the attention of the enemy forces. You should try assassination sometimes its fun.
I've seen Nightgaunts (backed up with a Wraith) do extremely well at this, and used it on more than one occasion in Descent Into Darkness. With that said, outside of the one death squad there were more level 1 units, and the death squad itself works fine with level 2 units.

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Re: The First Actions

Post by nuorc » May 7th, 2014, 7:41 pm

Another thing I like to consider in the beginning is the speed of the units. If I want slow units to meet the enemy together with my other troops I have to send them off earlier. Classic example would be the HI-line.
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Re: The First Actions

Post by Carrow » May 7th, 2014, 8:35 pm

beetlenaut wrote:High-level units cost 2 or 3 per turn in upkeep, and it adds up fast. If you recall them first, you will be taking a gold hit before you have a chance to pick up any villages.
This is wonderful. I didn't realize that they are more to upkeep! Either I didn't pay attention in the tutorial, or I have a short term memory. This is a pretty major concept that I am glad I know now for it will change the way I play.
max_torch wrote:--> Sometimes I am recalling right away units that are 2 or 1 xp from levelling because I plan to utilize the full heal from level up in a 'rush' tactic and get a quick win.
-->Also sometimes certain pairs of or combos of levelled units are overpowered which can be used for leader assassination strategies: like sylph/shyde combos, or grand knight/paladin pairs or a bunch of avengers, bunch of silver mages, squad of gryphon masters.. these guys are quick, flying or have some quirk like ambush or teleport and can take down the enemy leader while a bunch of cannon fodder/ distraction units draw the attention of the enemy forces. You should try assassination sometimes its fun..
This is a good idea, I suppose I was doing something similar when I recalled a full set of leveled troops for pure power and recruited some non-leveled troops for distraction/meat shields.
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Re: The First Actions

Post by nuorc » May 7th, 2014, 8:46 pm

Carrow wrote:I recalled a full set of leveled troops for pure power and recruited some non-leveled troops for distraction/meat shields.
If you pair a veteran and a fresh unit you can try to put the XP in the new unit. That way you can 'breed' a powerful army with lots of experienced units.
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Carrow
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Re: The First Actions

Post by Carrow » May 8th, 2014, 4:46 pm

nuorc wrote:
Carrow wrote:I recalled a full set of leveled troops for pure power and recruited some non-leveled troops for distraction/meat shields.
If you pair a veteran and a fresh unit you can try to put the XP in the new unit. That way you can 'breed' a powerful army with lots of experienced units.
That is a good idea as well!
One thing I may have missed, how do you know how much xp a "A" unit will gain when it kills "B" unit?
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Re: The First Actions

Post by beetlenaut » May 8th, 2014, 4:52 pm

It's the level of B times 8. Or, if B is level-0, it's 4 points. Just fighting and not killing an enemy gives you points equal to their level. (Nothing for level-0.) You should read through Gameplay section in Help. If you did it before you started, it was probably too much information, and now it will answer several questions.
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Re: The First Actions

Post by max_torch » May 8th, 2014, 5:38 pm

beetlenaut wrote:It's the level of B times 8. Or, if B is level-0, it's 4 points. Just fighting and not killing an enemy gives you points equal to their level. (Nothing for level-0.) You should read through Gameplay section in Help. If you did it before you started, it was probably too much information, and now it will answer several questions.
As you play more you eventually realize that you really really need to read the whole help section in the game especially as it gets to harder levels and campaigns and not being called a noob in multiplayer....

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Carrow
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Re: The First Actions

Post by Carrow » May 9th, 2014, 12:22 pm

I read the help sections before I started the tutorial, but like beetle said, it was prob too much information at once to retain. I will go back and read through it again, that should help out a lot.

Thanks for all the help everyone!
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Re: The First Actions

Post by nuorc » May 9th, 2014, 4:26 pm

Carrow wrote:I will go back and read through it again, that should help out a lot.
...and still won't be enough. ;)

I also try to take the 'tip of the day' serious, like ~'A wise plan might fail at the wrong time of day'; I often have to restrain myself when I could make a tasty kill, but might get stuck...
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Re: The First Actions

Post by RangerCado » May 16th, 2014, 5:59 am

A strategy i've found useful is to get level 2 or 3 healers as early as possible in the campaign, then recall them as part of your second or third recruitment wave to stay in the back and get more level 2 soldiers. On the HttT campaign especially I usually have about 12-20 level 2 troops, 4-8 level 3 troops, and several mages or cavalry with XP gained. (Especially useful with Cavalry as you actually save 3 gold recalling them instead of recruiting a fresh one)

There is, however, a certain level coming up for you in HttT that I believe an elite force is much more suited for than dozens of expendables due to the need for a stronger front line.

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