My thoughts on the games balance

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Garred
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My thoughts on the games balance

Post by Garred » April 24th, 2014, 12:00 am

I like this game but I find it frustrating. some races are just ridiculous, like the undead ghosts they take half damage from everything except arcane? not only that they can steal life when they melee. all my friend did to beat me was spam spawn ghosts against my Dwarves and the dwarves have no arcane units. also I hate that when I play against bots they always hit 90% of the time despite my units taking advantage of villages and terrain they're defensible on, and when its my turn I always get MISS MISS MISS. I rage quit a few times because I couldn't stand how unfair I felt it was. I dunno if its just bad luck on my part but I really think every first hit should be 100% on your turn.

still like this game but I dunno if I wanna keep playing it until future patches fix my issues with the game.

also before anyone calls me a noob and to L2P. know this.....

No u.

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Wintermute
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Re: My thoughts on the games balance

Post by Wintermute » April 24th, 2014, 12:06 am

Did you try swapping places with your friend and spamming ghosts against him (or her)? See if they can counter it!

One time, when I was new to this game I thought drakes were totally overpowered. So I tired playing them a few times against experienced players and they trounced me. Then I started to realize that it may take some time to get good at this game.
"I just started playing this game a few days ago, and I already see some balance issues."

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tekelili
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Re: My thoughts on the games balance

Post by tekelili » April 24th, 2014, 2:08 am

As Wintermute said, all Wesnoth players have some feelings about unfair unbalances motivated in lack of skill and experience in deal with some situations, it is a natural step in learning curve ;)

You would be surprise to know that most skilled players use to think is the oposite: Undead have very hard time dealing with Knalgans. Try to attack a ghost with an ulfserker at day and look what happens. Then cover your ulfserker with footpads so enemy units cant reach him next turn... and watch undead player cry how unfair is this game :whistle:
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Sapient
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Re: My thoughts on the games balance

Post by Sapient » April 24th, 2014, 4:44 am

That was very tactfully said, Wintermute, and much better than I could have put it.

Generally speaking ghost spam is a terrible strategy and Knalgans have multiple counters for it (ulf, trapper, thunderer). But the best time for ghost spam is Undead (random) versus Northerners (chosen) with fog on. The undead player could get a nice advantage going before the northerners field enough counter units (archer). Then, due to the principle of accumulating advantage, it would in practice be difficult to stage a comeback. The very possibility of such a matchup is the main reason why I always go Random.
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."

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beetlenaut
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Re: My thoughts on the games balance

Post by beetlenaut » April 24th, 2014, 6:52 am

The AI doesn't cheat with the RNG, and we're pretty sure it's not buggy. To prove that it is, you would need to send us some nice, long replays showing us what you reported. I suspect that in reality your units didn't miss more than they should have, but that those times stick out in your memory. The same with the AI hitting you. You can check the Menu-->Statistics at any time to see whether or not it's your imagination.
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Garred
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Re: My thoughts on the games balance

Post by Garred » April 24th, 2014, 7:17 am

awesome feedback. I shall try these. I can't quit. I find my self itching to play.

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8680
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Re: My thoughts on the games balance

Post by 8680 » April 24th, 2014, 7:25 am

Garred wrote:[…] I always get MISS MISS MISS.
There are some add-ons floating around that remove or diminish the randomness factor; perhaps you would prefer playing with one of those?
Garred wrote:[…] I really think every first hit should be 100% on your turn.
This could also be effected via an add-on, fairly easily I think. If you’d like help writing such an add-on, feel free to ask in the WML Workshop.

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Dixie
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Re: My thoughts on the games balance

Post by Dixie » April 24th, 2014, 1:53 pm

About the luck thing: Wesnoth if also a game of managing risk. Maybe you expose yourself too much? In any event, everyone here will guarantee you chances are not skewed, one way or another. But I feel ya, it was really hard on me at first, too. Try not to save/load too much, I find it kills the enjoyment of the game rather rapidly...
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TheCripple
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Re: My thoughts on the games balance

Post by TheCripple » April 26th, 2014, 12:58 am

tekelili wrote:You would be surprise to know that most skilled players use to think is the oposite: Undead have very hard time dealing with Knalgans. Try to attack a ghost with an ulfserker at day and look what happens. Then cover your ulfserker with footpads so enemy units cant reach him next turn... and watch undead player cry how unfair is this game :whistle:
Then watch skeletons show up, and proceed to demonstrate just how much the berserk ability is a two edged sword. Even in the day time, Skeleton-Ulfserker fights favor the former in a big way, and that's before we get to the price difference. Ghost spam is unsustainable, but the Undead have their options.

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tekelili
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Re: My thoughts on the games balance

Post by tekelili » April 26th, 2014, 3:46 am

TheCripple wrote:
tekelili wrote:You would be surprise to know that most skilled players use to think is the oposite: Undead have very hard time dealing with Knalgans. Try to attack a ghost with an ulfserker at day and look what happens. Then cover your ulfserker with footpads so enemy units cant reach him next turn... and watch undead player cry how unfair is this game :whistle:
Then watch skeletons show up, and proceed to demonstrate just how much the berserk ability is a two edged sword. Even in the day time, Skeleton-Ulfserker fights favor the former in a big way, and that's before we get to the price difference. Ghost spam is unsustainable, but the Undead have their options.
Sorry, but my ulserker is covered, and your skeletons will have to deal with my footpads until they win skirmisher ability. And if you dare to bring some dark adepts he will show them how one edged can be the berserk ability :P
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Coffee
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Re: My thoughts on the games balance

Post by Coffee » April 26th, 2014, 4:04 am

Just want to put out there that another valid strategy against ghosts with knalgans is to use thieves. Backstab is pretty powerful for 13 gold and they have arcane resistance.

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iceiceice
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Re: My thoughts on the games balance

Post by iceiceice » April 26th, 2014, 4:05 am

Here's a link to an early ladder game I played vs amikrop1, Knalgan vs Undead on CotB. You'll see I intentionally attack skeletons with ulfs at day, and kill ghosts with outlaws at night. enjoy

Afaict, most experienced players on the ladder would rather be Knalgan than Undead in this matchup. IIRC tek's ladder stats add-on gave the matchup something like 65:35 odds among players with a 2000+ ladder rating.

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