stuck in valley of death

[max_torch]

PLease can anyone give me advice on how I can beat this level? I have died three times in a row today just now trying to implement the "run for the southeastern mountains strategy" here are the replays... and i was able to get the white mage in isle of the damned expecting to get an advantage here but i got nothing... and its offtopic but how do i update from 1.10.4 to 1.10.7?

first_try.gz

(50.06 KiB) Downloaded 348 times

second_try.gz

(55.34 KiB) Downloaded 295 times

third_try.gz

(53.87 KiB) Downloaded 342 times

its been plaguing me for months

here's one more just now

fourth_try.gz

(51.59 KiB) Downloaded 319 times

[Anonymissimus]

I only watched the beginning of "first" and "last"...you recruit only one castle with thieves only. That's okay for cannonfodder, but you need at least another castle full of anti-undead units. And when going south, send a rider for the southeastern holy water. (leave the northwestern, that unit would die)
You need to be able to *quickly* rush over the southern army, killing all of them in at max 2 turns, which won't work with 3 anti-undead units, so you can only become stuck. You have enough gold for the scenario. Don't try to come out of this scenario with positive gold, it won't work. Not sure whether it makes sense to save gold for a second recruiting wave in the southern castle, probably not, considering the upkeep you need to rush over the southern army. Of course, your recall list should contain some sorceress, red mage, white mage, Paladin and such. Loyal Elrian should be an arch mage by now, Haldiel a Paladin.

[max_torch]

Of course, your recall list should contain some sorceress, red mage, white mage, Paladin and such. Loyal Elrian should be an arch mage by now, Haldiel a Paladin.

In my recall list I have loyal fugitive, loyal grand knight, loyal paladin, loyal red mage thats about to level, loyal ranger, druids, elvish captain, knights, a sorceress, some merfolk... I guess that would suffice?

[Anonymissimus]

Of course, your recall list should contain some sorceress, red mage, white mage, Paladin and such. Loyal Elrian should be an arch mage by now, Haldiel a Paladin.

In my recall list I have loyal fugitive, loyal grand knight, loyal paladin, loyal red mage thats about to level, loyal ranger, druids, elvish captain, knights, a sorceress, some merfolk... I guess that would suffice?

Probably yes. You could send the grand knight for the holy water, but you probably would need to take the northwestern one, and go for the northern castle with your army then (strategy is roughly the same as with the southern castle). Don't recall units without any of fire, arcane or impact, better get more cannon fodder instead. Druids may also be not that useful (their ranged impact is bit weak), unless you need additional healing. You can recruit shamans instead, for cannon fodder and slowing of units you don't manage to kill yet. The merfolk is useless of course, due to lack of suitable terrain.

[Elfarion]

What I found to be a good approach on the two lower difficulties is recall every mage and a paladin, if available. Than recruit a second complete keep full of mages and attack the western enemy. He recruits zombies that are no match for your mages and level 2 ghosts that provide exp. Use Konrad's leadership and try to kill the ghosts before nightfall. Execute the lich with a paladin assisted by a MoL. Afterwards you should have a handful of levelled mages (make sure some of them can heal). You can now focus on the enemies approaching from south. If you have a horsemen or knight pick up the southern holy water and then position on the village near to it, he makes for a good distraction and shoul most likely survuve the scenario (and maybe even level up).

[max_torch]

Well there was one tactic I had in mind that I wanted to try before following your tips, which I just applied.. and it worked.. but I ended the scenario with 82 gold only... I managed to kill all three liches by turn 9 though but was the cost of gold lost too high? here's the replay.

HttT-The_Valley_of_Death_—_..._replay.gz

(55.01 KiB) Downloaded 387 times

Is there a way I can do this again better without losing too much gold?

Than recruit a second complete keep full of mages and attack the western enemy.

I'll definitely try that.

[beetlenaut]

You are worrying too much about gold. You should not be afraid to use all of it or go negative in any scenario, and it's rarely a problem to finish with a low carryover amount. I only replay and try to preserve gold if the next scenario is clearly unbeatable without it.

[Beleth]

You are worrying too much about gold. You should not be afraid to use all of it or go negative in any scenario, and it's rarely a problem to finish with a low carryover amount. I only replay and try to preserve gold if the next scenario is clearly unbeatable without it.

Out of curiosity, how do you determine whether or not a scenario is "unbeatable without it"? I'm not being sarcastic here; one of the issues I struggle with in some campaigns is knowing when I'm losing due to poor strategy, poor tactics, insufficient experienced units, insufficient gold, etc.

[beetlenaut]

Out of curiosity, how do you determine whether or not a scenario is "unbeatable without it"?

I don't mean unbeatable by anyone, I mean unbeatable by you. That would automatically take into account your current tactical skill, recall list and everything. If you've tried it half a dozen times, and you just can't succeed without a couple more units, then you need more gold.

one of the issues I struggle with in some campaigns is knowing when I'm losing due to poor strategy, poor tactics, insufficient experienced units, insufficient gold, etc.

It's not any one thing. If you have more experienced units, it will compensate for a lack of gold. If you have better tactics, it will compensate for a lack of good units, and so on. (Tactics can probably compensate for the most though: It is possible to beat HttT on hard even while giving yourself a large handicap like only recruiting shamans or never recalling any unit.)

[Beleth]

I don't mean unbeatable by anyone, I mean unbeatable by you. That would automatically take into account your current tactical skill, recall list and everything. If you've tried it half a dozen times, and you just can't succeed without a couple more units, then you need more gold.

Ah, got it, thanks. It's an empirical measure: if you can't beat a level by saving gold then you shouldn't feel bad about spending gold.

[Velensk]

As a side note: my replay is in the Siege of Elensafar thread.

[max_torch]

As a side note: my replay is in the Siege of Elensafar thread.

Yeah I saw it. better to talk in this thread and not offtopic in the SoE thread.
well, does negative gold carry over to the next scenario? or if you're negative it just means that nothing gets added in the following scenario? like for example if you're negative 1000 would you start the next scenario with 40% of 1000 minus the starting gold? I never really questioned this aspect of the mechanics before.
I gotta go take basic probability and statistics exams before the xmas break starts wish me luck

[Beleth]

well, does negative gold carry over to the next scenario? or if you're negative it just means that nothing gets added in the following scenario? like for example if you're negative 1000 would you start the next scenario with 40% of 1000 minus the starting gold? I never really questioned this aspect of the mechanics before.

Nope. There's a minimum starting gold for each scenario. You can only start above this number, never below it.

[PizzaFromLastWeek]

I did it on the first try, technically.
Wanted to beat both to see what happens.

Was wandering around with my last units, pretty broke. All with just a bit of health. Messed everything up I could.
Had to save and load several times just to make sure the enemy missed the attack to move on. Did this for about 30 minutes. Felt like 2 hours.
It was like cheating but at some point I knew I just didn't know how to beat it. So I had to do it to move on.

Maybe one day I try it again without the save and load thingy.

/Edit: Sorry for the (censored)-word. I won't use it again in here.