human vs multiple ai

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tadpol
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human vs multiple ai

Post by tadpol »

I advice people to learn to beat the ai before taking multiplayer seriously or using derogatory words about new players.

I've recently started beating 2 of the new ai on a 3p map.

I'm curious if anyone can win vs 3ai on a 4p map. Hamlets as P1 or P2 would be cheating imo

MRDNRA
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Re: human vs multiple ai

Post by MRDNRA »

tadpol wrote:I advice people to learn to beat the ai before taking multiplayer seriously
Beating AI is ridiculously easy compared to even beating 1 human, when they have the same gold and income. Plus it depends what multiplayer you normally do, there are many types of multiplayer games.

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ChaosRider
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Re: human vs multiple ai

Post by ChaosRider »

World Conquest (campaign for 3 players) can be played alone, what makes in first scenario fight 1 player vs 1 ai, in last 6th scenario is 6 ais vs 1 player then :P (same for Modified World Conquest).
Creator of WOTG (+2880 units), MWC (+615 units), SurvivorsArea, RandomColosseum, RC WOTG, RC MWC, ColosseumRandomClonesBattle, BetweenDarknessAndLight, StealingWeapons, MoreUnitsForms, MoreDamageTypes, CanBeOnlyOne, ColosseumOneWinner, BonusSpam, CriticalStrike - available at 1.12 Wesnoth server.

MRDNRA
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Re: human vs multiple ai

Post by MRDNRA »

ChaosRider wrote:World Conquest (campaign for 3 players) can be played alone, what makes in first scenario fight 1 player vs 1 ai, in last 6th scenario is 6 ais vs 1 player then :P (same for Modified World Conquest).
Yep this is very good for a test, on nightmare difficulty the first level can be tricky with 3 players vs 1 AI at times.

The general strategies are the same regardless, forming a defensive line against AI and absorbing their attacks no matter how much gold and income the AI has because AI almost always suicidally rush, which even fairly new players would recognise as generally a bad idea.

tadpol
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Re: human vs multiple ai

Post by tadpol »

My main curiosity is whether anyone else is following this line of play and if they have reached the next level.

I am familiar with world conquest, and it has a different feel from mp ffa maps with teamed ai's.

Specifically the strategy of forming defensive lines or pockets works great on WC were the humans almost always have good healling support, are able to pick a continuous patch of favorable terrain to fight on, and have enough starting gold to rotate units consistently.
With the 3p maps I'm familiar with open field fighting is very difficult to avoid, and generally sticking to the ground that makes 2-1 reasonable gives the ai an income sufficient to replace dead units at a timely pace, and probably leaves you with too little income to be meaningful. Theoretically you might be able to hold out like that until you had enough lv2's or 3's to clean house. I call 'let them hit me until I win' plans "Homer's Plan" and I've never gotten one to work for 2ai's on a 3p map.

This is the plan that I have gotten to work:
The ai commonly over recruits and misuses scouts, so I initially deploy 'hunting parties' with the intention of trapping and killing scouts before their infantry can rescue them. I generally do this asymmetrically so on one side I might get 2 early kills, and against have to give up a village.
If this works I use those units to grab villages or maneuver as possible with minimal losses until TOD/positioning allow me to fight on the side they are on, hopefully in that area I have maybe 3/4 of the gold of the ai so with a little luck I can get village steals or kills.
If that works I send most of my income to the other side, were the ai might have 3-4 times my gold in the area. I give up villages until I can organize a favorable fight or get pushed into a position were retreating would make things harder.
If I have to enter a non-advantageous fight I generally let units get surrounded and fight to the death to give me enough time to set up proper fights on another field or to give scouts a chance to go around fights to harass 'protected' villages.
If I win a big fight or lure off large numbers of fighters with scouts, or get a few extra villages I generally crush one side while holding off or slowly losing on the other, since if one ai falls I'm almost sure to win any 1v1 with the ai.

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Alarantalara
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Re: human vs multiple ai

Post by Alarantalara »

Which new AI is this? The Strong RCA AI or the Experimental AI? They're noticeably different from each other.

tadpol
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Re: human vs multiple ai

Post by tadpol »

The default RCA. I've been away for a while.

I have now also beat the strong RCA and experimental ai. They seem easier than default in this mode. Their apparent preference of taking villages or other maneuver over doing damage allows easier control of fight time and place which is the corner of my strategy.

roidanton
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Re: human vs multiple ai

Post by roidanton »

Are you suggesting to play WC solo, ie. setting the other two teams to "empty" - is that even possible? I thought you'd get the same amount of gold if you do that,so this could be even worse than playing with some random noobs.

I've recently tried to beat the SX RPG maps on the highest possible difficulty with as few units as possible - you can play with up to 5, but get more starting gold with fewer units, so I actually think more than 3 units are too much of these (but it's still almost impossible to win solo!).

In the past, I didn't like WC very much because it seemed impossible to actually finish a game - people would always run away. However, the same thing applied to SX RPG and I started to love it very much when I eventually played it alone.

If it is possible to beat WC on Nightmare with a single team, how long would that take - one weekend day per map or would it take longer?

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ChaosRider
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Re: human vs multiple ai

Post by ChaosRider »

5h and 40 minuts :P. Go ahead try MWC :D, they are 2 campaigns with Modified World Conquest in name, second one is a bit changed, thx what is less bonus places than in first MWC, but also ai have less higher lvls in first ai wave. MWC 2 is using images and units from MWC, thats why MWC 2 is much lower in size than MWC.
Creator of WOTG (+2880 units), MWC (+615 units), SurvivorsArea, RandomColosseum, RC WOTG, RC MWC, ColosseumRandomClonesBattle, BetweenDarknessAndLight, StealingWeapons, MoreUnitsForms, MoreDamageTypes, CanBeOnlyOne, ColosseumOneWinner, BonusSpam, CriticalStrike - available at 1.12 Wesnoth server.

MRDNRA
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Joined: September 11th, 2009, 5:06 pm

Re: human vs multiple ai

Post by MRDNRA »

roidanton wrote:Are you suggesting to play WC solo, ie. setting the other two teams to "empty" - is that even possible? I thought you'd get the same amount of gold if you do that,so this could be even worse than playing with some random noobs.

I've recently tried to beat the SX RPG maps on the highest possible difficulty with as few units as possible - you can play with up to 5, but get more starting gold with fewer units, so I actually think more than 3 units are too much of these (but it's still almost impossible to win solo!).

In the past, I didn't like WC very much because it seemed impossible to actually finish a game - people would always run away. However, the same thing applied to SX RPG and I started to love it very much when I eventually played it alone.

If it is possible to beat WC on Nightmare with a single team, how long would that take - one weekend day per map or would it take longer?
Although I've never completed WC Nightmare, with a team it takes about an hour for map 1. I generally tend to play myself controlling all 3 and while that can make the games a bit faster, you also need to have the abilities to adjust to the possibility (and indeed probability) of having one player surrounded by 2 AI (something which I myself still find extremely tricky to manage!)

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