What Factions Have Good Tanks? Ghoul vs Wose, etc.

[fabi]

Undeads have a strong arcane damage dealer.
Loyalists have both, strong arcane and fire damage dealer.

I can't see how the Wose can be used as a good tank against the named factions.

[AxalaraFlame]

Undeads have a strong arcane damage dealer.
Loyalists have both, strong arcane and fire damage dealer.

I can't see how the Wose can be used as a good tank against the named factions.

Bro, try play a few ladder games, just really a few, you will know it

[Captain_Wrathbow]

...you just learned what a "tank" is, earlier today. And now you are trying to argue with a developer over whether a certain unit is a tank. And you aren't even providing any coherent arguments to prove your point, you are just saying "you will know it".

I'm afraid that I am not convinced.

[WARBOZZ]

Sorry bro, though I am not a good mutliplayer gamer, but I am still rather experienced. I believe that "tree is bad tank" theory is most probably accepted by their appearence of 20% dodge rate and negative resistances. Actually they are tanks, and they are rather powerful ones, especially used against undead and loyalists.

Tha Woses ain't very gud tanks at all. They got a lot of health, ya, but they easy ta hit and they weak ta most magic. Dey mostly useful fer killin ded things and hittin realy hard, like tha Loyalist Horseman. I could jus be wrong, of course; there are a lotta warlords betta at this than I am.

[AxalaraFlame]

Tha Woses ain't very gud tanks at all. They got a lot of health, ya, but they easy ta hit and they weak ta most magic. Dey mostly useful fer killin ded things and hittin realy hard, like tha Loyalist Horseman. I could jus be wrong, of course; there are a lotta warlords betta at this than I am.

Thanc yo. Gud warlord speec. When us' play 1v1, it is yet diffarent; woses are tanks, and born to be na' tank, designed to be na' tank, in 1v1, not exactly in UMCs and cam'paagns. Me could be roung as well, but dev ain't be always wright. And thes' time I guess he means wose ain't be gud tank in SP games or in MP cam'paagns; but in 1v1, they are really steadi folks. So, aha, it is actually na' diffarent story.

And, me say, as a warlord, yor spelling is bad. Me am pretty sure it is "roung", not "wrong". Ya, that is wright

In 1v1, if yo' ask me to give some Xplanations for thes', me would say it depands. Just like drakos, when they met black robed humans, they are goona screwed. Even if na' clasher dies like candle in the wind. Me just heard people sa' that, dunno what is "candle" or why it is in wind. H'enyway. Woses, hoowever, do not like us orks, and fought like noobs when me send orkish grunts to cut some for fun. Oh ya it's so funny! Me like to do it as well And if they get trees, us will be many, they are gonna few. Us rush and win, just like my papa and grandpapa did, it's so funny!! To counter us, gud elf players had to get some foghters in the first noght, though me am so confused why do they call them foghters, in my opinion they are tree shagger grunts. They are gud as well, and some resisatant ones can hold'a villa for a noght, until other tree shaggers catch'em up and shot down me grunts. Sooner they moght get trees, depends on how me played. For drakos, ya', the same story. Trees are not gud against drakos, apparently. Thee tree shaggers players don't usuallay get trees against drakos, except for they are newbies. And these shorties in cave, bah, me hate them! Thee shortie axe grunts are gud. They cut trees with no much difficuilties on hills and mountains. But gud tree shaggers players mought still get some woses. Why? Because gud shortie-alliance player won't get only shorties as well! They had to get some outlaws and griffons to fork on them. Why mought they? Since tree ain'ta be necessary, they mought don't get them.

Hoowever, woses are really tough feds VS humans and undead. If yo' had any experiences in undead VS tree shaggers, yo' would find that is so hard for yo' to erace a wose in forest by three guys. Us orks understand it, so us come en masse and gave'a them no chance. But'a...undead, these scums, don't have so good grunts like us do. Theer grunts are greedy folks. Theer unions negotiated with thee so called "nacromencers", and thee nacromancers promissed to pay 15 dollars for each undead grunts. Us dont have that union, bah. A grunt is paid 12 dollars, thats all, no bullshix. So undead agonized in cutting woses. Theer blacked robed humans cannot froze trees properly, theer grunts suffer tree smashes. Gud players hide trees and bank till undeads come to real death. For humans, ya'!~ Das humans have magis, with a flamethrower, ya'. But unlike us orks, they are expensive. Thee union are bad as well, charged theer king 20 dollars for each staff. Oh hell. And thee are so puny, only 24 hp, bah. Like most other situations, humans need their speer grunts and bow grunts to fight tree shaggers. Trees take them with nearly no damage infilcated. There, humans players gotta get magis and bladeshorses. Magis are expensive, me said, and they cannot really kill a tree by themslves, thus need bladeshorses to cut. In that way, tree shaggers become a lot, humans are few. Let'a lone tree shaggers won't let'a tree stand lone, wright? And thee tree shaggers would hunt bladeshorses by elf bow grunts, slash magis by elf grunts. In that way, human players do need to be careful. If they are way too greedy, wanna take advantages of day (me orks hate it ), the ambushing trees will screw them'up. Thats all.

[Iris]

[snip]

[snip]

If I see any more of this ridiculous linguistic roleplaying I’m moving this whole topic to Forum Games.

[AxalaraFlame]

Ya, sorry, back to the topic.

Trees are tanks, but I did not say they MUST BE good tanks. Theie resistances decided that they can be vulnerable against a series of weapons. "Tanks", simply have a series of characteristics, like lots of hp, extra physical resistances, notice: PHYSICAL. And they are no-jokingly expensive comparing to regular units. They ain't be always good tanks! Nothing can be always good. Just like HI, they are such kinda trash cans in 1v1 and ladder.

Trees are nothing for drakos. For dwarves and orcs they are but below average, and we don't necessarily get them. But for humans and undead, they are rather necessary.
Vs Undead, undead units can hardly kill a tree without taking the risks of big loses themslves by 3 positions (Most probably 4) when a tree stand in forest. There is simply no good ways for them to kill it. Some noobs might say "oh dear lord of darkness why don't you use ghost" et cetrea. Well I could only tell you guys that elf units are generally cheaper than undead, and they guarntee good damage, unlike ghosts, providing only 18 damage even to trees in the midnight. Let alone they can be possibly killed by three positions of one shaman and two elves, or by one blow of mages; if two mages they are undoubtedly damned.
Vs humans, humans, though have impact endurant bladehorses, though have mages, we cannot deny that human player needs to spend most of his money on an regular army, made by spears and bows. A tree can bring lots of pressure of human conscriptions, which indicate they would need at least one mage+one horse to balance its advantage. Besides, during daytime, only strong horses cut trees well. One mage can never kill one tree even if he made an all-hit, so we need two. What would that indicate? Elves will not be so foolishly to let a tree stand alone. To attack a tree, you expose your mages and horses, under the hungry elvish archers and fighters' blades and arrows, let alone your number will be in an disadvantage, let alone let alone you don't really have the chance, so you must attack something else instead, but suffer from trees as well next turn! If the elvish player want to play defensively, no mages, or fewer mages more trees, you will feel rather agonized.

[Huumy]

Undeads have a strong arcane damage dealer.
Loyalists have both, strong arcane and fire damage dealer.

I can't see how the Wose can be used as a good tank against the named factions.

So, how it works vs the undead:
The point of time when you want to start fighting with the undead is when night turns into dawn. This means you make your stand (put your army in defensive position to minimise the hexes) at last turn of night or dawn. Having your army in formation that allows only 2 hexes to attack a single your unit, this makes woses almost unkillable even at night (you need to melee with them 2 skeletons and hit all 6 attacks to kill a wose that's usually a huge risk). This means you can usually put woses on the hills with 30% defense where other units would be too vulnerable.
After you survive the one turn you start fighting back at the neutral time of the day. If your opponent chose to use adepts to attack your woses they now have vulnerable adepts on the frontline, which can be attacked by fighters or woses without any retaliation. Also at this point forward the undead player is usually retreating, this means all the woses who were left alive will regen and can be used again in 3 or 4 turns.

How it works vs Loyalist:
You try to defend at the late afternoon or dusk. Again if your opponent is using a mage to attack woses it's good chance it's vulnerable next turn even if they kill the wose. Because having a line of units means the other 2 units next to wose can only be attacked from 1 hex if the wose was attacked from 2 hexes.
After you have survived the attack, you can start punching back. Now you can take your woses and use them to attack low defense spearman without much retaliation.

These are of course examples and not every game is so clearly back and forth. But this is the way I've seen woses work in the more back and worth big army fights.

[AxalaraFlame]

Hey, wait. When the heck did I create this thread?! I don't think it was called like this before? Were I talking about Tanks!?

[WARBOZZ]

Oi still dun kare bout da woses. If ya dun ave perfekt linez dat stop em from gettin ganged up on dey get destroyd; da only way dey ave any decen chance a survivin iz on forestz dat ya need fer odda elvez. Oi do find dem useful gainst da dorfs, do; they aint got much fer ranged magik, so oill sumtoimes use a woze or two ta take da eat offa moi archas.

[AxalaraFlame]

Oi still dun kare bout da woses. If ya dun ave perfekt linez dat stop em from gettin ganged up on dey get destroyd; da only way dey ave any decen chance a survivin iz on forestz dat ya need fer odda elvez. Oi do find dem useful gainst da dorfs, do; they aint got much fer ranged magik, so oill sumtoimes use a woze or two ta take da eat offa moi archas.

@WARBOZZ
Bro, this topic is locked. Besides, you speak really good orcish. You should go here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=37822

I am not interested in talking with those who cannot distinguish how much different it is of SP games/MP campaigns with 1v1 human vs human wars anymore. Just like few months before, I claim HI is trashy in 1v1, some jokers still jump out and shout "Oh naw! HIs are good against undead. They smash bones easily!" Oh damn it, don't they understand human languages?! I am done with it.

If you wanna speak orc languages, lets speak orcish and have much fun with that. For this definetly useless trashy topic, where "Tree is tank" does not really matter or indicate how much they can do as a tank, since they can perform really badly, but just because they are defined as tanks...I am not gonna go further argue about it.

[fabi]

Bro, this topic is locked.

As you wish.

[AxalaraFlame]

Bro, this topic is locked.

As you wish.

Thank you friend