What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era?

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nillybit
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by nillybit » May 22nd, 2014, 3:58 pm

After completing my treatise expounding upon the virtues of the lowly Goblin Spearman, I remembered this is a thread about the worst unit, so I wanted to write what I find to be the worst unit(s).

Lately, I've been trying to play Loyalists and I have no idea what the heck to do with Cavalry. I was surprised no one else mentioned Cavalry as being useless, so I'm kind of wondering if maybe I'm just overlooking the obvious with them.

My problem with them is actually pretty relative to the faction they're in. Wolf Riders are an even worse unit, however they are in a faction where nothing else moves very fast, so they are the fastest unit in a faction of slow units (also if fostered with care, they blossom into beautiful Goblin Pillagers, who are ohmygod so amazing!)

Cavalry also happen to be the fastest unit in their faction, but in general, Loyalists already have some decently fast units. The fencer moves pretty well and is all kinds of slippery and can be difficult to kill. Horsemen move only 1 hex slower and are vastly superior at murdering soft units. Cavalry are just...not nearly as good at killing and just as vulnerable to death as horsemen. They seem to me to have the sole advantage of being 7g cheaper while moving just one more hex.

Cavalry grow up into Dragoons, who are admittedly pretty decent, but why would you funnel all your experience into one when you could have a Knight/Lancer instead?

So when exactly does one field a cavalryman over the plethora of other options the Loyalists have?

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Alarantalara
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Alarantalara » May 23rd, 2014, 1:03 am

All the time. They were actually weakened for 1.10 because they are so strong.

Starting with the obvious: they are the fastest unit Loyalists have, so are good as scouts to capture villages early.

They have excellent cold resistance: between this and their speed, they force undead players to think twice about recruiting Dark Adepts.

Killing other scouts: they do more damage than virtually all other scouts and can keep up with them for the most part.

Holding flat terrain: They have almost as many HP as a spearman and higher resistances. Units without pierce attacks find it much harder to get past a Cavalryman than a Spearman. Note also that this means you can use them to block retreats with less risk than using say a Fencer.

There are certainly more reasons, but this is a good start.

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Rigor
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Rigor » May 23rd, 2014, 2:36 pm

usually i would hold back for teaching you why a specific unit is better than you think, but in THIS specific case i must absolutely make an exception. Cavs are so extremely good that you can seriously laugh at your opponent with them. and i mean, against basically every faction. if your loyalists, you buy cavs. easy as that. You dont buy cavs, your noob :eng: (i joke a bit but you get the idea).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3e-88gptDM

Please take a very good look at this video where it speaks for itself why cavs are the way to go. if you should not notice, the cavalries are the reason why an opponent should not attack. they wrap themselves around the offenders until day comes and just slaughter everything that was too slow to run far enough. even if they lost half their hp, the resistance makes up for it. just look at the attack number. 3 hes to attack from means 3x9 possible hits, and if you have 3 cavs, thats 9x9 or 81 damage. if a unit is usually on 60% that means you probably land 49 damage with such a move - more than any unit has. not forgetting to mention that half dead cavs level up into full hp cavs :lol:

Yomar
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Yomar » May 23rd, 2014, 5:01 pm

Yeah all right, if you say that Loyals have scout as fast unit, and that Wolven riders are in a faction where nothing else moves fast, that's wrong, a quick grunt can get 6 MP while a a quick Orcish assassin can get 7 mp, faster than a scout with base attributes or fast like a quick scout.
A cavalry has 3 attacks a horseman only 2, so they have more chances to hit an evasive unit, 2 cavalry can hit 6 times 2 horseman only 4, then numbers become 9 and 6, but horsemens are a lot more expensive, you can replace a cavalry is much easier to replace a horseman, I maen 7 gold is half the cost of a spearman or a bowman, beside I think that the difference is of 6 Gp not 7.
As regarding the evoluttion, well the cavalry evolves in an unit with ranged attack, so the attacker always risks retaliation (Knight and Lancer can be attacked without risk with ranged weapons), plus cavalry can evolve again lancer not, they also have better and more resistances.

forceOfHabit
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by forceOfHabit » May 25th, 2014, 1:53 am

Has anyone ever actually tried to quantify how much better one unit is than another? I know that the relative strength will be very dependent on circumstances (like terrain and healing and special attacks etc, etc.), but how about the following simple question: all else being equal, how much better is an elf avenger with 20 hp than an elf avenger with 10 hp. Say both are sitting on 50%, and there are no other units or terrain (including villages for healing) around.

fwiw, I'm still working on the analysis, but my current best guess is roughly 2 1/3 times better. Anybody else have an answer?

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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by doofus-01 » May 25th, 2014, 3:17 am

forceOfHabit wrote:fwiw, I'm still working on the analysis, but my current best guess is roughly 2 1/3 times better. Anybody else have an answer?
(Oh, you tease...) It's whatever the RNG says it is.
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forceOfHabit
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by forceOfHabit » May 25th, 2014, 3:54 am

doofus-01 - lol. I just wish the RNG would make up its mind!

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8680
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by 8680 » May 26th, 2014, 11:54 am

Rigor wrote:You dont buy cavs, your noob :eng: (i joke a bit but you get the idea).
Please refrain from insulting people, jokingly or not.

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