What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era?

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Flameslash
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Flameslash » March 7th, 2013, 7:05 pm

Thieves are very useful - just remember to use their backstab ability, and you can do 10-3 or even more damage. When they level up to Rogue, I believe they get skirmisher, and at level 3 they get poison knives IIRC, so they're definitely worth getting and sticking with.

Silux
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Silux » April 4th, 2013, 6:27 pm

about the starting units i somewhat dislike the mage for it's very little hp and huge exp needed to level up.
They are ok in combat, but they need 24/7 protection.
I feel somewhat the same for the elf shaman, but she could survive to an orc grunt, while the mage, which costs more probably couldn't

I think captain advancement from elf warrior not effective as it should be, as it's capped at lvl3 leadership(so it can't boost lvl3 units) and moves slower and clumsier than other elves.This way he slows the army or comes later.

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Great_Mage_Atari
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Great_Mage_Atari » April 4th, 2013, 10:24 pm

Footpads. Definitely footpads. Low HP, crappy attack, it's like lv. 1 fodder.

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Crow_T
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Crow_T » April 5th, 2013, 12:30 am

Footpads. Definitely footpads. Low HP, crappy attack, it's like lv. 1 fodder.
The more I play the more I agree with this, it's barely worth leveling them up as well. I agree with the fish too, but they are pretty uncommon as a recruit in most SP campaigns (I don't play MP).

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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Silux » April 6th, 2013, 10:21 am

footpads ARE fodders.
they have a really good movement and agility.Even if they have also weaker resistances than other humans 3 footpads can kill a skeletons without getting much damage.
But they are really luck based.
Description is really fitting.It says to use them only to run around and if you really need to attack, do it in group on lone units and at night

Mermans aren't really strong, but they are good in water almost as the elves are in forest.
In the discussion before i wouldn't bring the merman near the shore, but lure the enemy in the water.
Most of the other units are really weak in water and it gives a big edge to mermen, even if they are weaker than earth counterparts.

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beetlenaut
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by beetlenaut » April 9th, 2013, 8:08 pm

Footpads have their uses. The optimum strategy for the second scenario in NR seems to be to get about 50 of them. And magi, wow! I've beat HttT and even TRoW recruiting nothing else. Not that it's easy, mind you, but they are fantastic units. Obviously less effective in multiplayer because you rarely level them, but still nice against many enemies.
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Aelaris
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Aelaris » April 26th, 2013, 7:42 pm

Silux wrote:footpads ARE fodders.
they have a really good movement and agility.Even if they have also weaker resistances than other humans 3 footpads can kill a skeletons without getting much damage.
But they are really luck based.
Description is really fitting.It says to use them only to run around and if you really need to attack, do it in group on lone units and at night

Mermans aren't really strong, but they are good in water almost as the elves are in forest.
In the discussion before i wouldn't bring the merman near the shore, but lure the enemy in the water.
Most of the other units are really weak in water and it gives a big edge to mermen, even if they are weaker than earth counterparts.
Footpads are scouts. They run one slower than a horse, but have a better movetype. Because screw gryphons as scouts.

When footpads fight, have them fight like scouts - hitting opprotunisticly, hanging onto a village until the opponent's second unit gets there, etc. Since they are elusive, they don't fair well for cutting people off like cavalry or elf scouts or ghosts or whatever does, since they die on <70% terrain, but otherwise they are pretty scouty scouts.

And only 14 gold for a 7 move unit! Never underestimate the value of moving quickly.

(Incidentally, a general note for elusive foot: 70% defense is getting hit 30% of the time. 60% defense is getting hit 40% of the time. 40% is 133% of 30%. So the defensive difference between having 70% defense and 60% defense is greater than whether your opponent is in the twilight, or their favorite time. Seriously, don't have them get hit while off of 70% terrain.)


Oh, and my vote for worse unit is the Gryphon. If you're in a situation where you can afford him and he's going to do good, you're going to win anyway. (For MP, obviously, not SP.)

Otherwise, the worse units are Gobbo Spearmen and WCs.
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Chief_Chasso
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Chief_Chasso » May 11th, 2013, 4:40 pm

Another unit I find basically useless is the Lancer. I've recently begun to understand the importance of horseman in loyalist campaigns. The level one horseman can be tricky to level up sometimes. You want to send the horseman to the front lines to get a charging kill, but by doing so, you can potentially leave him defenseless. That said, the horseman units are only as good as their counter-attack. So when you level up a horseman, you can choose between a Knight or a Lancer. I can't imagine anyone choosing a Lancer over a Knight?

The Knight has an 8-4 melee blade attack, which will make an enemy unit think twice before attacking. He can hold his own on the front line. The Knight also has more HP. Not to mention, you can level up a Knight to Grand Knight or Paladin. Sure the Lancer has 12-3 charge, but to me this is useless, since charging is used as killing blow to near dead enemies. Why do you need 3 charging strikes? Also, if you do use the 12-3 charge, it's suicidal, since that's just more damage your unit will receive in return, leaving the Lancer weakened and exposed to counter attacks. At least with the Knight you have the option to saddle up to an enemy (no pun intended :wink: ) and use the 8-4 melee blade attack (which is pretty sweet in daytime).
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Captain_Wrathbow
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Captain_Wrathbow » May 11th, 2013, 4:45 pm

Chief_Chasso:
One word: multiplayer. :wink:

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Chief_Chasso
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Chief_Chasso » May 12th, 2013, 2:13 am

Chief_Chasso:
One word: multiplayer.
Fair enough. I'm sure it's obvious I don't play MP. That said, and I know ignorance is not an excuse, but I have a question- are there units in Wesnoth that were designed mainly for MP purposes? I honestly have never played MP before, so I don't know how a Lancer can be better than a Knight (maybe you can explain :) ). In other words, is my logic still valid assuming you're playing SP?
SP Campaign: Rally For Roanic

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Rigor
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Rigor » May 12th, 2013, 8:53 am

personally i can understand your argumentation that the knight has somehow better survival chances than the lancer, but did you consider this:

the lancer is a breakthrough unit. that means, from one hex he can deal significantly more damage than any other unit i can think of. you dont have to fight strong melee units for this. imagine this: you fought versus orcs, they dealt some damage to your lancer and now hes down 1/2h HP. but they also attacked your lancer with an archer, that means, he is facing in his turn a unit that itself gains little counter damage (some orcish archer daggers 2-3 dmg times daytime bonus or malus, times 2 is roughly lets say...10 damage versus your lancer. the lancer can kill almost unscathed because every single blow deals 32-39damage and the unit is probably dead before really retaliating. not talking now about how awesome 11 mp is.

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The_Afterman
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by The_Afterman » May 15th, 2013, 12:51 am

Also a good punisher for poor unit placement. Someone sticks a land unit into water right next to some land. That high movement can make him come out of the fog, have great accuracy and double power from charge. Game 0ver

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Marche
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Marche » May 15th, 2013, 5:32 pm

Footpad really sucks. I don't know when they changed it to level 1 (or did I just imagine that?), but it's not that great. As a scout it's subpar, and on offense it's a last resort. Every other faction does better with scouts, be it level 0 units or combat useful-ones. Why do the Knalgans get stuck with units that cost more than they're worth, gryphons being too expensive to really use and footpads costing as much as other faction's combat units?

Most any time I've gone for lancer has been because the battle is nearly at its end and the power boost + movement increase is attractive enough to skip going knight. I can't think of any time I've had an advanced horseman and wasn't on the way to winning, to be honest.

Someone mentioned WC being a bad unit, but I think undead would lose a lot without them. Having to level a DA twice before you can make a 0-cost horde out of weakened units? At the right time, a WC can be invaluable, whether it's to finish off a 5 hp orc or to throw in front of your DA, and it's not like you're losing much with no upkeep and so cheap.
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Crow_T
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Crow_T » May 15th, 2013, 9:39 pm

Footpad really sucks. I don't know when they changed it to level 1 (or did I just imagine that?), but it's not that great. As a scout it's subpar, and on offense it's a last resort.
I undid the 1.10 footpad nerf, changing the impact to 5-2, and that small change makes them worth recruiting again. If you only play SP I recommend it, it was more of a MP balance change.

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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Honor » June 9th, 2013, 12:32 am

I think the worst unit is Direwolf Rider. It does not makes sense to have 2 blade attack, one 9-4 and one 4-4 poison. I have yet to see 4-4 poison be used at all. The potential damage lost to use the poison attack makes not worth being used.

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