What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era?

Share and discuss strategies for playing the game, and get help and tips from other players.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
User avatar
WARBOZZ
Posts: 10
Joined: October 30th, 2012, 5:47 pm

Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by WARBOZZ » November 2nd, 2012, 4:21 pm

MRDNRA wrote:Well I have a bias against level 0 units because of them having such little health and no ZoC. It's difficult to say though. Goblin Spearman has a good attack, Walking Corpse has plague. However, I probably still say the walking corpse. To use plague you have to get kills, thus feeding it XP. At level 1 when it is at its best killing (for plague) ability it wastes XP due to not being able to level up again, whereas level 1 goblins you can use to injure enemies without ever having to worry about trying to get kills.
Da sekret wit level zero grotz iz dat ya dun uze dem often. Ya pick up wun or two an stick em in da olez where ya dun want ta use a reel boy. Dey get stabbed or chopped instead a yer gud boyz an ya proceed ta continue ta kill da enemy. Da zombies oi dun ave much sperience wit, but from wut oi gatha ya use dem ta pick off a few ded enemiez ta tie em up, same az wit ta grotz. When da enemi az a ded walka insida iz line e doez iz best ta kill it, which iz toim e aint killin yer real boyz.

WesnothNewbie
Posts: 49
Joined: May 7th, 2012, 6:57 pm

Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by WesnothNewbie » November 2nd, 2012, 10:01 pm

WARBOZZ wrote:
MRDNRA wrote:Well I have a bias against level 0 units because of them having such little health and no ZoC. It's difficult to say though. Goblin Spearman has a good attack, Walking Corpse has plague. However, I probably still say the walking corpse. To use plague you have to get kills, thus feeding it XP. At level 1 when it is at its best killing (for plague) ability it wastes XP due to not being able to level up again, whereas level 1 goblins you can use to injure enemies without ever having to worry about trying to get kills.
Da sekret wit level zero grotz iz dat ya dun uze dem often. Ya pick up wun or two an stick em in da olez where ya dun want ta use a reel boy. Dey get stabbed or chopped instead a yer gud boyz an ya proceed ta continue ta kill da enemy. Da zombies oi dun ave much sperience wit, but from wut oi gatha ya use dem ta pick off a few ded enemiez ta tie em up, same az wit ta grotz. When da enemi az a ded walka insida iz line e doez iz best ta kill it, which iz toim e aint killin yer real boyz.
Please, cut that out. No one can understand you, you know?
In Linux Land, if you listen hard at night, you can hear the whirr of Windows machines rebooting.

User avatar
Lord_Napis
Posts: 9
Joined: August 12th, 2012, 12:16 pm

Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Lord_Napis » November 3rd, 2012, 2:10 am

In wesnoth the worst unit is a matter of circumstance. Adepts are horrible against ulfs, and bats should never lead a charge against mages. Just keep in mind what is good against what, and you should never have a worst unit.
Permission to Annilate all enemy units, Sir.
Granted, Lord Napis.

User avatar
TheScribe
Posts: 465
Joined: June 17th, 2012, 8:17 pm
Location: You won't know till it's too late

Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by TheScribe » November 3rd, 2012, 2:38 am

Lord_Napis wrote:In wesnoth the worst unit is a matter of circumstance. Adepts are horrible against ulfs, and bats should never lead a charge against mages. Just keep in mind what is good against what, and you should never have a worst unit.
Actually, regardless of how good each unit is, there will always be a 'worst unit'. Not nessecarily a bad unit, but indeed the worst. if all the units stunk, there would still be a best unit as well. [/technicality]
Sorta on a break from the forums ATM, have been for a while. If I was doing something for/with you and I haven't recently, that's why, I will be back soon hopefully.

User avatar
Rigor
Posts: 941
Joined: September 27th, 2007, 1:40 am

Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Rigor » November 3rd, 2012, 5:52 pm

The fish hunter

i picked elves on weldyn to look for myself if theres something i might have overlooked by saying the hunter is a weak unit. this is the result: two times i could not place my hunter on a better field than 50% (or else i got attacked melee by other units) and then 3 nagini hunted one of them. result: one time the fish received so much damage that he was unusable the same turn, the second time the fish was destroyed although on 60%.

Image

Image

Figure: Hunter v other units in water - a sad story that gets repeated over and over...

the hunter has 10 hp less than a naga which is significantly less and therefore is not really a good tank in no piece of hex on the map, not water and nor land or you can retreat but not use the unit any longer. or it dies. with no other unit you have to be so super careful about placement excpet during drake vs adepts matches. is that really what the fish is supposed to be? an average of 8 damage delivering piece of trash? it really wouldnt hurt to give them bits of more HP or make them more deadly than they are now. couldnt they get an extra trick for strategic weight at least?
Attachments
2p_—_Weldyn_Channel_replay.gz
hunters
(16.57 KiB) Downloaded 249 times

User avatar
Rigor
Posts: 941
Joined: September 27th, 2007, 1:40 am

Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Rigor » November 3rd, 2012, 7:19 pm

The rematch...

...was a fishvanche of first order: loys vs elves, and guess what response i got?

Image

Figure: i didnt expect anything else.


in the end, i let him use the fish he had in their full potential, but of course it was not enough. especialyl since night set in, the average damage i received was ridiculously low and i could trap the poor fish my meleeing them in close quarter.

i mean, how ridiculous is that? they are the units designed to dominate water yet when they try to do that they can only fail because there is no way they can kill a unit reliably from 3 hexes.
Attachments
2p_—_Weldyn_Channel_replay.gz
hunter 2
(27.94 KiB) Downloaded 267 times

WesnothNewbie
Posts: 49
Joined: May 7th, 2012, 6:57 pm

Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by WesnothNewbie » November 3rd, 2012, 10:05 pm

Rigor wrote:The fish hunter

i picked elves on weldyn to look for myself if theres something i might have overlooked by saying the hunter is a weak unit. this is the result: two times i could not place my hunter on a better field than 50% (or else i got attacked melee by other units) and then 3 nagini hunted one of them. result: one time the fish received so much damage that he was unusable the same turn, the second time the fish was destroyed although on 60%.

Image

Image

Figure: Hunter v other units in water - a sad story that gets repeated over and over...

the hunter has 10 hp less than a naga which is significantly less and therefore is not really a good tank in no piece of hex on the map, not water and nor land or you can retreat but not use the unit any longer. or it dies. with no other unit you have to be so super careful about placement excpet during drake vs adepts matches. is that really what the fish is supposed to be? an average of 8 damage delivering piece of trash? it really wouldnt hurt to give them bits of more HP or make them more deadly than they are now. couldnt they get an extra trick for strategic weight at least?
O.K wow. That was NOT played out well at all. Maybe you just don't get the purpose of Rebels...

i. First and foremost, why ON EARTH DID YOU JUST RECRUIT FIGHTERS?!!! Seriously, from turn one you went wrong. You should have at least one shaman on your force, and a hell of a lot more archers. You didn't have any mages either, which would have helped you deal with that troll and that wolf rider on the mountain, plus give you some hard-hitting daytime power. Read the Rebel guide here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/How_to_play_Reb ... Northeners

ii. You just played it badly. Particularly with the spearmen. Seriously though, if you're going to say why you don't like the Merman Hunter, you may as well not use the one of the few scenarios where it does badly. But even so, you could have used them to much greater extent- for example, why on earth did you retreat at mid-day??! You could have launched a counter attack of your own instead of just letting your merman take hits! You could even have used that injued unit; after all, lack of retaliation is one of the reasons ranged attacks are so good.

iii. Finally, you seemed to completely ignore ToD. Why did you melee Northeners at night? Really? If you ARE going to attack chaotic units at night, you may as well have recruited more shamans to slow those grunts and trolls FIRST. There's a reason elves have high defence in forest and mountains, and that is to retaliate hard when the enemy goes at them on their favourite time of day.

I played with Rebels vs Northeners in a map where water made a role. I've attached the replay.
Attachments
2p_—_Fallenstar_Lake_replay.gz
Try looking through the reply. The hunter ends up being quite useful.
(27.83 KiB) Downloaded 269 times
In Linux Land, if you listen hard at night, you can hear the whirr of Windows machines rebooting.

MRDNRA
Posts: 212
Joined: September 11th, 2009, 5:06 pm

Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by MRDNRA » November 4th, 2012, 10:50 pm

WesnothNewbie wrote:
Rigor wrote:The fish hunter

i picked elves on weldyn to look for myself if theres something i might have overlooked by saying the hunter is a weak unit. this is the result: two times i could not place my hunter on a better field than 50% (or else i got attacked melee by other units) and then 3 nagini hunted one of them. result: one time the fish received so much damage that he was unusable the same turn, the second time the fish was destroyed although on 60%.

Image

Image

Figure: Hunter v other units in water - a sad story that gets repeated over and over...

the hunter has 10 hp less than a naga which is significantly less and therefore is not really a good tank in no piece of hex on the map, not water and nor land or you can retreat but not use the unit any longer. or it dies. with no other unit you have to be so super careful about placement excpet during drake vs adepts matches. is that really what the fish is supposed to be? an average of 8 damage delivering piece of trash? it really wouldnt hurt to give them bits of more HP or make them more deadly than they are now. couldnt they get an extra trick for strategic weight at least?
O.K wow. That was NOT played out well at all. Maybe you just don't get the purpose of Rebels...

i. First and foremost, why ON EARTH DID YOU JUST RECRUIT FIGHTERS?!!! Seriously, from turn one you went wrong. You should have at least one shaman on your force, and a hell of a lot more archers. You didn't have any mages either, which would have helped you deal with that troll and that wolf rider on the mountain, plus give you some hard-hitting daytime power. Read the Rebel guide here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/How_to_play_Reb ... Northeners

ii. You just played it badly. Particularly with the spearmen. Seriously though, if you're going to say why you don't like the Merman Hunter, you may as well not use the one of the few scenarios where it does badly. But even so, you could have used them to much greater extent- for example, why on earth did you retreat at mid-day??! You could have launched a counter attack of your own instead of just letting your merman take hits! You could even have used that injued unit; after all, lack of retaliation is one of the reasons ranged attacks are so good.

iii. Finally, you seemed to completely ignore ToD. Why did you melee Northeners at night? Really? If you ARE going to attack chaotic units at night, you may as well have recruited more shamans to slow those grunts and trolls FIRST. There's a reason elves have high defence in forest and mountains, and that is to retaliate hard when the enemy goes at them on their favourite time of day.

I played with Rebels vs Northeners in a map where water made a role. I've attached the replay.
You do realise that Rigor is one of the top Wesnoth players right?

Huumy
Posts: 292
Joined: October 15th, 2009, 9:52 pm

Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Huumy » November 5th, 2012, 3:54 pm

Rigor wrote:in the end, i let him use the fish he had in their full potential, but of course it was not enough. especialyl since night set in, the average damage i received was ridiculously low and i could trap the poor fish my meleeing them in close quarter.

i mean, how ridiculous is that? they are the units designed to dominate water yet when they try to do that they can only fail because there is no way they can kill a unit reliably from 3 hexes.
This is why they are only useful when you recruit one of them to hold a water village and scout :)
Tho, in theory on a map where you can use water units to support your ground army you could level up one and get a strong level 2 unit.
"And the girl that you want is directly out in front, And she’s waving her caboose at you, You sneeze achoo, She calls you out and boom!"
The offspring, trolling you since forever.

User avatar
Rigor
Posts: 941
Joined: September 27th, 2007, 1:40 am

Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Rigor » November 14th, 2012, 1:00 am

Continuation of the evaluation of the fish III

you just have to hold water villages, yeah right. and then u park one unit costing you 1 gold per turn while the opponent can maneuver around and do more useful things with his units. i recruit two sushi this game and look where it brought me (in just one game!):

Image

Image

even the shammie is more useful although dead next turn: if a fish attacked instead, the fish would be dead but the unit would not be slowed.

Image

another situation where i urgently need the fish to do some damage - kill that augur! but i need two because its my powerphase, that always means u need two lawful units, cuz this sushi has too little effect on units, especially enemy units.

Image

Image

here goes a scene where i extremely urgently need to finally level p my sushi somehow or else it dies! of course, with just 2 strikes out of 3 thats a big gamble. it didnt work, of course.

User avatar
nuorc
Forum Regular
Posts: 569
Joined: September 3rd, 2009, 2:25 pm
Location: Barag Gor

Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by nuorc » November 14th, 2012, 1:19 am

Rigor wrote:this sushi has too little effect on units, especially enemy units.
LOL

Hey Rigor, you really like them fish, dontcha? :wink:
I have a cunning plan.


Cynical_Clown
Posts: 1
Joined: February 4th, 2013, 1:43 pm

Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Cynical_Clown » February 4th, 2013, 1:58 pm

WARBOZZ wrote:
MRDNRA wrote:Well I have a bias against level 0 units because of them having such little health and no ZoC. It's difficult to say though. Goblin Spearman has a good attack, Walking Corpse has plague. However, I probably still say the walking corpse. To use plague you have to get kills, thus feeding it XP. At level 1 when it is at its best killing (for plague) ability it wastes XP due to not being able to level up again, whereas level 1 goblins you can use to injure enemies without ever having to worry about trying to get kills.
Da sekret wit level zero grotz iz dat ya dun uze dem often. Ya pick up wun or two an stick em in da olez where ya dun want ta use a reel boy. Dey get stabbed or chopped instead a yer gud boyz an ya proceed ta continue ta kill da enemy. Da zombies oi dun ave much sperience wit, but from wut oi gatha ya use dem ta pick off a few ded enemiez ta tie em up, same az wit ta grotz. When da enemi az a ded walka insida iz line e doez iz best ta kill it, which iz toim e aint killin yer real boyz.
Translation: The secret with level zero units is that you don't use then often. You recruit one or two and put them where you can't be bothered to use a better unit. They get attacked instead of more useful units and you proceed to continue to kill the enemy. The zombies (Walking Corpses/Soulless)I don't have much experience with, but from what i gather you use them to pick off severely weakened enemies to zombify them them, same as with the level zeroes. when the enemy has zombies in their forces they do their best to kill it, which is time they aren't spending killing your more valuable units.

I can't believe i'm the only one who gets this reference. :lol2:

User avatar
naomi
Posts: 13
Joined: February 17th, 2013, 6:19 pm

Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by naomi » February 24th, 2013, 9:40 pm

If I use horsemen, I generally have them hit a superpowered blow or two, and run them back behind my front line to get healed up by a White Mage or Shaman. Using them on the front lines for longer than a few turns usually results in a lot of dead horses, and considering how I could get a Mage for the same amount of gold, I don't normally use more than a few.

I love level 0 units. They're cheap, and you can wantonly throw them and your enemies to distract them from your poor, half-dead units in time for a Shaman or White Mage to get there. Walking Corpses have the added bonus of, in the event that they actually survive, getting you more units for no extra gold. It also allows you to refer to your army as your 'zombie minions', which is fun, and sounds more impressive than it actually is.

User avatar
Chief_Chasso
Posts: 132
Joined: December 15th, 2012, 2:36 am

Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Chief_Chasso » March 6th, 2013, 11:31 pm

I'm going to go out on a limb here... I think (at least one of the worst units) is the thief. Maybe it's me, but I can't keep these units alive, because they're so weak. They have low HP and cannot do much attack damage. Because of this they're easy pickings for the enemy. And why doesn't the thief have skirmisher? Seems to me that they should have skirmisher? Maybe this unit just doesn't fit with my playing style? Oh well.

Post Reply