What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era?

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WesnothNewbie
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What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era?

Post by WesnothNewbie » September 15th, 2012, 8:31 pm

Hey,
I know there is a thread on what people think is their favorite unit in the game, so I decided to make a thread asking people what they think the WORST unit in the default era is.
Personally, I have two units I seriously don't like; the Loyalist Heavy Infantryman,and the Knalgan Ulfserker.
The HI is a slow unit, and thus not a great attacker despite their damage output, have two strikers which have a habit of missing, don't have very high survivability because of their poor defence, are expensive and worst of all; don't fight particularly well against the units their supposed to counter. For example, when fighting undead, their weakness to cold is a rather large disadvantage when fighting an army that does the bulk of it's damage through cold based dark adepts.
I never liked the Ulf for very simple reasons. It is expensive, but a poor fighter with weak damage, not a great load of health, relatively low defence- even when compared to other dwarfes, and no ranged attack. It seems to be a utility unit to finish off injured units that the real army left, or maybe to soften up tough targets so that you can spear lead an assault (maybe to save a levelled unit, let's say). Neither of these purposes are terribly important, especially since the Horseman usually does a better job at either.
So what do you guys think? What is your least favorite unit?
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watbesh
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by watbesh » September 16th, 2012, 3:56 am

Goblin Spearman in Northerners is the most useless for me.
He is very fragile, and he does not have ZoC. He can advance with 2 kills, but his level-1 types are relatively fragile(26 or 31). Although he does not need upkeep, 9 gold seems too expensive for a unit with 18 HP and no ZoC.
I always use Orcish Grunt instead.

HI and Ulf are very strong unit, when they appear as enemies! :lol2: Oh, the same can go with Goblins...
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WesnothNewbie
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by WesnothNewbie » September 16th, 2012, 12:19 pm

watbesh wrote:Goblin Spearman in Northerners is the most useless for me.
He is very fragile, and he does not have ZoC. He can advance with 2 kills, but his level-1 types are relatively fragile(26 or 31). Although he does not need upkeep, 9 gold seems too expensive for a unit with 18 HP and no ZoC.
I always use Orcish Grunt instead.

HI and Ulf are very strong unit, when they appear as enemies! :lol2: Oh, the same can go with Goblins...
If you need to counter HI, Woses are ideal, footpads and DFs for knalgan alliance, maybe dark adepts for undead, burners with drakes, and orchish archers with northies. As for the ulf, you can usually trade one of your units for it, since they're quite expensive. Knalgan player shouldn't really use Ulfs against Northeners.

I agree with you on the Grunt. They are excellent meatshields but still retain good offensive power. Trolls work OK in offense, and stick 'em on a mountain at daytime and you won't have much to worry about.
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TheScribe
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by TheScribe » September 16th, 2012, 6:10 pm

Actually, to counter HI what you really need is a mage...

But to answer your question, I've always found the Bowman worthless for my playing style. It has it's uses, just not generally for me. :wink:
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by WesnothNewbie » September 16th, 2012, 6:21 pm

TheScribe wrote:Actually, to counter HI what you really need is a mage...

But to answer your question, I've always found the Bowman worthless for my playing style. It has it's uses, just not generally for me. :wink:
Well maybe, but when fighting loyalists, they usually send out lots of spearmen and bowmen, as that's their main army. Woses are pierce resistant and much of the loyalist army is melee based, so a wose is usually a better choice. Besides, the mage is rather fragile and HI have low defence anyway, so magic doesn't make a big difference. The only way the loyalist leader is going to counter your wose (since the wose owns HI with it's impact attack + impact resistancy, + higher base damage + higher health + regen) is by spamming mages, and of course, any Rebel army should have archers and shamans, which can retaliate or slow (and you can finish them with a wose ... :lol2: )

Yeah, the bowman is kinda weak. Even for someone who prefers fighting ranged (hence my love of undead, Rebels and Drakes), I don't find bowmen that useful. Better mages. Naturally, the undead archer has better resistancies and ranged damage, the only worse archer is the poacher. That is probably my most hated of the archers. Orchish archer has nice fire attack though :)
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MRDNRA
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by MRDNRA » September 16th, 2012, 6:46 pm

I used to hate poachers too, but they have a few advantages over bowmen and indeed most other archers (apart from elvish archers):

4 strikes compared to 3 for bowman gives better ctk against 1 or 2HP units.
Relatively few XP required to level up.
2 different levelling choices upon reaching level 3.

The one unit I still don't really like that much is thieves, I find that even with their high defense rating they still die very easily. When combined with the fact that it is quite hard to use backstab a lot of the time, I very rarely end up using them.

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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by TheScribe » September 16th, 2012, 7:03 pm

The only reason I really said mage was the HI has 10% resistances to impact, and -10% to fire.

Theives are used suicidally in my book. I can generally take out two of an opponent's units with two theives before the theives utter demise... (and since theives aren't that expensive, that generally works out, depending on who I'm fighting)
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by WesnothNewbie » September 16th, 2012, 7:21 pm

MRDNRA wrote:I used to hate poachers too, but they have a few advantages over bowmen and indeed most other archers (apart from elvish archers):

4 strikes compared to 3 for bowman gives better ctk against 1 or 2HP units.
Relatively few XP required to level up.
2 different levelling choices upon reaching level 3.

The one unit I still don't really like that much is thieves, I find that even with their high defense rating they still die very easily. When combined with the fact that it is quite hard to use backstab a lot of the time, I very rarely end up using them.
Agree, I never spam thieves. They're attacks, even with backstab, aren't great. I do agree poachers are useful for finishing off low HP units, since the Thunderer's 1 strike is unreliable, but of course the knalgan army should still have DTs as the primary "archer" unit. Even so, the Ulf can finish off units better than the poacher; it's one of the few things it does quite well. Although the poacher is cheaper, so one might recruit that if you don't have the extra 5 gold.
@TheScribe:
Whether mages or woses depends on strategy. I find the woses to be better, but I still recruit a mage or two for getting rid of HI when I can't risk a wose. Your strategy may be different.
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MRDNRA
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by MRDNRA » September 16th, 2012, 8:57 pm

WesnothNewbie wrote:
MRDNRA wrote:I used to hate poachers too, but they have a few advantages over bowmen and indeed most other archers (apart from elvish archers):

4 strikes compared to 3 for bowman gives better ctk against 1 or 2HP units.
Relatively few XP required to level up.
2 different levelling choices upon reaching level 3.

The one unit I still don't really like that much is thieves, I find that even with their high defense rating they still die very easily. When combined with the fact that it is quite hard to use backstab a lot of the time, I very rarely end up using them.
Agree, I never spam thieves. They're attacks, even with backstab, aren't great. I do agree poachers are useful for finishing off low HP units, since the Thunderer's 1 strike is unreliable, but of course the knalgan army should still have DTs as the primary "archer" unit. Even so, the Ulf can finish off units better than the poacher; it's one of the few things it does quite well. Although the poacher is cheaper, so one might recruit that if you don't have the extra 5 gold.
@TheScribe:
Whether mages or woses depends on strategy. I find the woses to be better, but I still recruit a mage or two for getting rid of HI when I can't risk a wose. Your strategy may be different.
My problem with ulfs is that they are an all or death unit. If you intend to use them then they always have to be protected heavily, whereas poachers can survive attacks and do a small amount of counter damage at little risk, and once they reach level 2 their melee isn't too far off your average level 1 general melee unit (namely, spearmen or orcish grunts for example), especially if it's a strong poacher that's been levelled, which have a potential 6-4 melee damage at night (assuming 0% resistance to blade).

Creativity
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Creativity » September 17th, 2012, 12:38 pm

The Elvish Lady, hands down, is the most worthless unit ever. The Yeti is second.

Default, I'd probably say the goblin spearman.

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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by TheScribe » September 17th, 2012, 12:40 pm

YIA

I like making acronyms fo no reason. :D
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by WesnothNewbie » September 17th, 2012, 2:29 pm

TheScribe wrote:YIA

I like making acronyms fo no reason. :D
IHA
Come on, the thing has 120 hp and does like 74 damage!
BTW, I think the Knalgan footpad is a really underated unit. I've attached a replay showing how well hard to hit footpads can withstand northener two-hitters. I think it's a good defensive unit and good village holder (the gryphon is too expensive and doesn't hold villages that well IMO).
Attachments
4p_—_Underworld_replay.gz
(30.64 KiB) Downloaded 308 times
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by Cowinatub » September 18th, 2012, 6:47 am

I actually find thieves to be very useful and their back stab attacks (especially at night time) can be extremely devastating, which can make them very good at finishing off units, or whittling down units for others to finish off. This coupled with their relatively low exp requirement can lead them to level up very quickly, which gains them a ranged attack and even more damage.
In respect to my least favorite unit I have to say the walking corpse, it has terrible damage and health, and its ability to turn other units into zombies simply takes much needed exp away from units that need it.
Last edited by Cowinatub on September 19th, 2012, 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by TheScribe » September 18th, 2012, 12:14 pm

WC spam!

They are kinda pathetic, aside from plague, which is awesome! :mrgreen:
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Re: What do you find to be the worst unit in the default era

Post by WesnothNewbie » September 18th, 2012, 2:53 pm

TheScribe wrote:WC spam!

They are kinda pathetic, aside from plague, which is awesome! :mrgreen:
Zombies can actually be pretty effective. You just have to know how to use them;
if you're going for a zombie horde (which I don't recommend, since it's kinda boring) one should still recruit some dark adepts to soften up your targets before *infecting* them.
One could still only recruit a few to use as cheap oppurtunistic attackers and turn near dead units. I think zed work best against the elven shaman- they're usually in the middle to heal, and being low hp is pretty nasty against the WC. Especially when the Rebel player wakes up with the things right in the middle of their army. Don't underestimate the psychological power of that.
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