Best two units

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Superking
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Re: Best two units

Post by Superking »

Great_Mage_Atari wrote:
Superking wrote:atm im feeling troll whelp & dark adept.. max resilience married to max damage. shamens arent going to acheive much slowing the whelps, and they arent going to want to even try slowing dark adepts.
Eventually both are going to be at a huge disadvantage. When it hits daytime, most hard-hitting loyal units (and even neutrals) can make mince-meat of both them. The troll whelps (though extremely hardy) will be slaughtered due to lawful units' strong attacks, and will offer close to no counter-attack offensive. The adept will be killed easily, as it has no unit to protect it during the day. Which is why I support my Dwarf Fighter and Adept combo.
I think I would take you up on that :D dwarf would be overmatched by supercosteffective trolls at night, and would be no faster than the trolls during day which would make pursuit (or to be more precise, focusing down individual trolls should they flee during day) difficult.. meanwhile mass regeneration. trolls also have a chance to come out with fearless, possess a numerical advantage and most importantly, have more HP/cost. Dwarf fighters suffer more hp:cost from DA attacks and a dwarf fighter surviving on low health isnt going to regenerate 8HP on your upkeep, ready to block another units attacks. This is just theorycraft ofc, and it depends upon formations (if you dont get enough hex-sides on individual trolls, they regen repeatedy and win on cost, otherwise dwarf damage output would probably carry it) but I dont think dwarf fighters are the optional choice.
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greenorb
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Re: Best two units

Post by greenorb »

Hmmm, the best two units.
Assuming we are limited to Lv 1 units that can be recruited I'd have to say:

1. Elvish Bowman: higher defense in woods but still retains standard defense on other terrains (60% Mountain, 50% Hills, 60% Castle etc.), also neutral so no worries about day/night cycle. Strong range attack with 4 shots. Also looking into the future it can level up to ranger and marksman which have skirmish/ambush and marksman respectivelyOnly possible snag is they are expensive.

The second needs to balance the elvish bowman's lack of melee strength and high cost:

2. Dwarvish Fighter: high defense in caves, hills, and mountains as well as high movement in said terrains (to balance the elves' weak defense in caves and slow movement in mountains). A solid melee attack that can be either impact or blade. Low cost. Can be paired with an elvish bowman in a two-man cell combining range and melee (working especially well in ares where forests and hills/mountains border). Also neutral so no day/night penalties.


This also takes into consideration the map too, a cavern map obviously much better for dwarves and and a wooded map favoring elves, but many maps have a healthy combination of the two.

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Dixie
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Re: Best two units

Post by Dixie »

Three comments about this last combo:

- In fact, the elvish archer's main weakness is really its relatively low hitpoints (especially for the cost).
- This can be balanced by the dwarvish fighter, that,s true, but I wouldn't exactly call him cheap: at 16 gold, it's only 1 less than the archer and 2 more than the spearman or 4 more than a grunt... I don't call a unit cheap when it costs above 14... unless it is very, very powerful (which I wouldn,t apply to the dwarvish fighter, but I may be wrong, mind you).
- Also, being neutral is not necessarily an advantage. Sure, it has no penalty, but it has no bonus either...

Finally, I think this combo would have a hard time with dodgers such as orcish assassins or high physical resisters such as HI or trolls. Also, their defenses cost for naught against units such as DAs...
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powershot
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Re: Best two units

Post by powershot »

Honestly, i don't think you can cover everything with two units.
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johnqwilson
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Re: Best two units

Post by johnqwilson »

Maybe we do need more than two units. Maybe three units.
I propose thieves, footpads and poachers! Oh, wait.......

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Great_Mage_Atari
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Re: Best two units

Post by Great_Mage_Atari »

johnqwilson wrote:Maybe we do need more than two units. Maybe three units.
I propose thieves, footpads and poachers! Oh, wait.......
No. This is a thread about 2 units. You can make another for your needs.

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Temuchin Khan
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Re: Best two units

Post by Temuchin Khan »

powershot wrote:Honestly, i don't think you can cover everything with two units.
Maybe not, but this one covers an awful lot:
Temuchin Khan wrote:1. Elvish Shaman
2. Orcish Assassin

Even without the upgrades, this combination has slow, poison, and heals; impact and blade.

Including all the upgrades, it has slow, poison, heals, cures, magical, and marksman; impact, arcane, blade, and pierce.

The Orcish Assassin would wreak havoc among living creatures, and the Elvish Shaman would be effective against both the living and the undead.

Both units get 70% defense in the forest, and the Orcish Assassin has good defenses almost everywhere, including 70% in the mountains, and is just fast enough to double as a scout.

uncleshelby
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Re: Best two units

Post by uncleshelby »

But the Elvish Shaman and Orcish Assassing both have very low health and damage, and both are semi-expensive.
Timshel

Caphriel
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Re: Best two units

Post by Caphriel »

johnqwilson wrote:I propose thieves, footpads and poachers! Oh, wait.......
HODOR!
/me approves of this unit set

:lol2:

MRDNRA
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Re: Best two units

Post by MRDNRA »

uncleshelby wrote:But the Elvish Shaman and Orcish Assassing both have very low health and damage, and both are semi-expensive.
Also it would be extremely weak in melee combat. Assassins also have vulnerabilities to physical attacks, which effectively cancels out their defensive bonuses.

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Sapient
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Re: Best two units

Post by Sapient »

Yeah, I have yet to see anything yet proposed that was better overall pick than Dark Adept + Orcish Grunt

So if you know in advance that your opponent is going to pick Dark Adept + Orcish Grunt, what two units would you choose to counter them? Or is there no weakness to exploit in this combo?

My guess would be calvarymen for the mobility and resistances, but I'm not sure what complementary unit would complete the team.
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Superking
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Re: Best two units

Post by Superking »

ulf & troll.

troll dominates low damage grunts with its resistances and regen, plus fearlessness in the day
ulf for the autokill & finishing grunts at day
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Great_Mage_Atari
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Re: Best two units

Post by Great_Mage_Atari »

Oh, sure. But that is assuming that everyone will be using only grunts, now isn't it? You're not really getting the big picture, rather only focusing on dominating a single duo and not going for gold. Trolls only get 2 hits per turn, and even they aren't the strongest against most units. And during the day they're just plain terrible, even in spite of their regeneration and durability. And any pair of units with at least one ranged unit and a strong chaotic or lawful unit can easily defeat even a full level Ulfserker. Spearmen make mince-meat out of them. And so does everything else with either an advantage or high attack power. There's a reason they don't live long. You are also assuming that your Trolls will still be around to defend them and weaken other units so they can get, while your Trolls themselves are easily defeated without someone backing them up. Not to say it's a bad combo... wait, I am saying that. You may want to put more thought into it.

Caphriel
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Re: Best two units

Post by Caphriel »

I'm pretty sure he was just answering Sapient's question about a combo that would be good against specifically grunts+DAs, not in general...

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powershot
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Re: Best two units

Post by powershot »

What about Elvish fighter and archer. or even better, elvish lord. :D
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