The Siege of Elensefar troubles

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Does gaining gold from defeated units make sense?

Poll ended at December 10th, 2003, 12:52 pm

Yes
8
73%
No
3
27%
 
Total votes: 11

accursed

The Siege of Elensefar troubles

Post by accursed » December 5th, 2003, 12:52 pm

I am using the windows binary distribution (version 0.51) and I can't seem to get past the Siege of Elensefar when the difficulty is set to hard. In my best game saved I start with 553 gold, and I can recall the following level 2 units: a white and red mage, 2 knights, an elvish marksman and an elvish outrider. I can also recall a few knights which are about to level up and a one or two very plain level one mages...(approximately 2 experience each). Here is what happens:

Basically in easy and medium, my strategy for this level was to simply destroy the closest (northernmost) enemy leader quickly and then mop up below, however with the difficulty set to hard, all of my experienced units get killed before they get to the nearest leader, and I can't break through no matter how large my level 1 horde is. I am curious if anyone who has beaten this on hard can tell me if I should be trying to garner more experienced units in previous levels, or if I am just missing a specific tactic that is effective.

(general comment)
It has been my experience that a tradeoff exists between retaining gold and gaining experience, which I have found to be a difficult trade to make, and in general on hard, I have attempted to kill the enemy leaders prior to destroying their whole armies in order to preserve my units. I wish that perhaps gold could be gained by killing units, allowing it to be more worthwhile to attempt to defeat the enemy army rather than sneak attacking the enemy leaders.

fmunoz
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Post by fmunoz » December 5th, 2003, 3:15 pm

Units with LEadership and healing a a huge help for 1st level units.
Next time try a to add the the mix captains/marshals and shamans/druids to the mix.
Hard difficulty is mean to be hard or even harder :-)

KK_r
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Post by KK_r » December 5th, 2003, 3:40 pm

About gaining gold. It makes sense if you get gold from the leaders but the regular soldiers/beasts wouldn't have any gold, if they had the leader would have taken it.

Dave
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Post by Dave » December 5th, 2003, 4:14 pm

It is a key idea of the game that there is meant to be a tradeoff between finishing a level earlier and waiting around to 'milk' experience.

We specifically don't want a situation where the best strategy is to hang around, 'milking' every possible experience point by killing off all enemy units.

If we wanted to remove the tradeoff, we'd simply reduce or remove the early-finish bonus.

David

methinks
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Post by methinks » December 5th, 2003, 9:45 pm

I have raised this point once already but got no response. What tradeoff do you see here?You hang around and get EXP?You also get all the gold from income. You kill leader? You get no exp and only some part of the gold (income-1 AFAIR)

Dave
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Post by Dave » December 5th, 2003, 10:59 pm

methinks wrote:I have raised this point once already but got no response. What tradeoff do you see here?You hang around and get EXP?You also get all the gold from income. You kill leader? You get no exp and only some part of the gold (income-1 AFAIR)
If you kill the enemy leader, the bonus you get is as much or more than all the possible gold you could have gotten by waiting around. It is the income for every village on the map for all the turns remaining. You can't possibly get more income than that.

You also don't have to pay any troop support for the bonus period, although admittedly, under the new support system, this probably isn't relevant.

We may increase the bonus in future.

David

methinks
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Post by methinks » December 6th, 2003, 9:41 am

Dave, I am telling you. From my observations BONUS=round's left*(income-1)
That is No bonus at all. Pplaying almost till end you gaind EXP and get more gold.

[EDIT]newest win binary, didn't have much time to play snapshot
about snapshot: don't know why but there is no description availble for pillagers but there is one in a directory. strange...
oh and one pillagers have almost killed one of the elvish leaders. Two pillagers, both attacked twice and almost killed him. Pretty unfair. (EASY mode)

Dave
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Post by Dave » December 6th, 2003, 8:29 pm

methinks wrote:Dave, I am telling you. From my observations BONUS=round's left*(income-1)
That is No bonus at all. Pplaying almost till end you gaind EXP and get more gold.
Okay I tested this. Methodology: edit scenario 1's map file (data/maps/map0) remove the '1' from the middle and put it one space away from the top-left corner of the map, this will make Konrad start right next to his destination. On the first turn, move Konrad to the destination.

You will get a bonus of 26 gold for each turn remaining, even though your income was 2. This is based on the number of villages in the map.

If you can show me a counter-example, I'll look into it.

David

methinks
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Post by methinks » December 7th, 2003, 12:16 am

Ok I'll go and check my saves, I've got it somewhere :) Surely.. Yeah, not in this city, well. Will send it on monday. See, I'm at home now adn I study 300 km from here :) Ther eis my 2nd home where I spend most of my time (playing BfW :P )

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