Heavy losses in Princess of Wesnoth

[Fire_Emblem]

Hi guys, I'm new here. I've been playing the game for a week now and I've just beaten Princess of Wesnoth in Heir to the Throne on Normal. However, I suffered heavy losses. I lost 2 elvish marshals, an elvish outrider, and all of my 6 mermen (including the one with the powerful magical weapon). For powerful units, I now have an elvish Avenger, elvish ranger, white mage, 2 knights, druid, delfador, and the elf guy that joins you. none of my level 1 units are close to leveling up except for a mage. Do you think that I can continue and rebuild my army or should I replay princess of wesnoth. I'm not the type that likes to reload (There is no fun in the game unless there are consequences for your mistakes), but I will if it's pointless to continue with the units I have. I'm used to playing Fire Emblem, which is SO, SO, SO much easier than this game. Thanks for the help.

[PeterPorty]

The obvious mistake fire Emblem players do is to try and get all the units to survive. To be good at this game, you need to recruit several level 1s, just as cannon fodder, so your level 2s and 3s don't die.

[Joram]

The merman are not important, and are pretty negligible. There is one scenario after this where they come in handy (and a few secrets you can unlock if you have them), but nothing really important.

However, it sounds like you're a little short on troops. It's a little difficult for me to tell, since I'm used to playing on hard, but I'd recommend restarting the scenario. As mentioned, try getting a bunch of level 1 units to use as cannon fodder. Also, unless you need them, don't recall non-loyal level 3's unless they have some beneficial trait (like Leadership or Healing). It is more gold efficient. The "bunch of level 1's as cannon fodder" will be even more effective if you manage to hang on to those Elvish Marshals.

Of course, it is certainly possible to beat the campaign with just the forces you have left (I seem to remember reading somewhere about someone who beat it on hard without recalling any non-loyal units). It'll just be a lot harder.

[Reepurr]

Princess of Wesnoth? Hrmph.
It gets far, far worse after that. (Especially if you try the Cliffs of Thoria secret branch.)

As one of the F.E. players, you'll be using a select few strong units, correct? And trying to fend off a horde of ogres and swordsmen without losing any super-units...correct?
As has been said before, NO.

I can add a little to the previous advice with L3+L1 combos...
• Make a formation with L1s in front, L3s behind. When an enemy attacks, your L3s are protected by a meat shield, and when an enemy comes too close, your L3s can eat them up (giving XP to your L1s of course).
• Avoid too many L3 non-loyals - each one gives you 3 less income compared to 1 less with L1s. 20 gold for a recall seems like a good deal for a L3 at first, but later...
• Shamans, Moremirmu, Elvish Marshals, Konrad (if you dare), Mermaid Priestesses or any other healers you have I forgot can be used as excellent backup - L1s get healed and then get more damage to hit whoever's trying to kill them back.

Oh, and about the magic weapon (that's Storm Trident to us Wesnothians) - you'll be able to get them again. When you're crossing the river (which is much more dangerous), and in Cliffs of Thoria (where you seriously NEED mermen...but only if you take the secret branch). Though I would advise strongly against CoT.

[HomerJ]

Princess of Wesnoth is one of the harder scenarios. The next one however will be even harder. If you make it past that with your recall list intact you are probably good to go.


Greetz
HomerJ

[Fire_Emblem]

Thanks guys. I will probably restart PoW and try to finish with more troops. I have already attempted Valley of Death and it seems impossible for me to come out of it alive without losing the rest of my army. I need my lv 3's back. It's hard to get used to this game after playing Fire Emblem because the emphasis is so different. I'm too used to thinking about how to level up my units rather than how to survive .

[Doopliss]

As a fair warning, be prepared to have your rear end handed to you on Valley of Death regardless of how well you do against the Princess. It's a brutal, brutal stage.

[Reepurr]

As a fair warning, be prepared to have your rear end handed to you on Valley of Death regardless of how well you do against the Princess. It's a brutal, brutal stage.

I've only played it on Easy, but there I killed two of the liches and made good progress on the third, with only very minor losses (about two people?).

[Doopliss]

I've only played it on Easy, but there I killed two of the liches and made good progress on the third, with only very minor losses (about two people?).

And I played it on Hard (as a newbie), so I'm probably exaggerating its difficulty. Still, I've heard a lot about the stage's difficulty, and I expect you can hit a lot harder and easier on a low difficulty (and making sure you don't get swamped is really what matters).

I just wanted to emphasize, don't think that you're necessarily having trouble with the Valley because you took unpleasant casualties on Princess.

[stegyre]

For a different strategy, may I suggest that you don't approach PoW as a straight up fight. As you've seen, it's extremely costly. IMX, it's costly even when using a more Wesnothian strategy (lvl1s backed by lvl3s, etc.).

The best recommendation I ever read for this scenario (and the only one I try, anymore) is to approach it as an assassination, and your goal is to "kill" the princess as early as you can. (The massive early-finish bonus is a big help in the next scenario, too!)

I always try to have two silver mages by the start of this scenario. Then, I recruit hordes of scouts.

The silver mages stay close to home, nice and safe, until their time comes. (They may even go south to take out the fencers, along with some other units.) The key is to have them sitting in villages, where they can use their teleport when the time comes.

The scouts grab villages and generally harrass the Princess's troops. Remember: their bow attacks get extra damage against other horse units. Two of the scouts, however, go to the top of the map and grab northern villages while generally avoiding enemy contact. Their goal is to capture and hold the village just north of the princess.

Once you've secured that village, in go the silver mages to immediately attack the Princess. They should do it, and since she has no ranged attack, they should both survive.

Scenario complete in less than 10 turns; troop losses: minimal, level 1 scouts.

[monochromatic]

I've played these on multiple difficulties, from easy to hard (plus an unfinished challege I was working on). The problem with your strategy, stegyre, is that you lost the one could gain from the high level troops. Later levels (on hard at least) spew and spew enemy units at you can you can't possibly even make it to the back of the map with scouts. On needs to have plenty of level 3s (and expendable too) by then.

The trick with PoW since the whole scenario is on damn open ground (good for the loyalists, bad for the elves) is to emphasize leadership. Get Konrad to level 3 as soon as possible, it pays off. It makes level 1 units fight like level 2 or even level 3 units at times. I remember going through this with scouts only on hard, and the only way to finish this was distraction, skirmishing, and leadership for power.

VoD on Hard has chocobones, which will rip your units apart. I finished it quickly with (on my scout run) loyal Hadiel (loyal Paladin), and two outriders with the holy water. Took many restarts to time the attack correctly. Normally use paladins and holy water knights to take out the liches. Or if you're on a lower difficulty level break out with outlaws (you have them from IotD), mages, EFs, and shamans. Oh, and do try to level Kalenz while you're at it. He sucks.

[TheGreatRings]

Hi guys, I'm new here. I've been playing the game for a week now and I've just beaten Princess of Wesnoth in Heir to the Throne on Normal. However, I suffered heavy losses. I lost 2 elvish marshals, an elvish outrider, and all of my 6 mermen (including the one with the powerful magical weapon). For powerful units, I now have an elvish Avenger, elvish ranger, white mage, 2 knights, druid, delfador, and the elf guy that joins you. none of my level 1 units are close to leveling up except for a mage. Do you think that I can continue and rebuild my army or should I replay princess of wesnoth. I'm not the type that likes to reload (There is no fun in the game unless there are consequences for your mistakes), but I will if it's pointless to continue with the units I have. I'm used to playing Fire Emblem, which is SO, SO, SO much easier than this game. Thanks for the help.

That's a better recall list than I usually have, most likely. I'd say keep playing.

[Jozrael]

There is a definite cadence in HttT. PoW into VoD is definitely the second major hurdle - while average difficulty ramps up after this, you won't be facing anything of equal difficulty for a while yet after this. In my opinion if not restarting is important to you, it is very possible to continue the campaign with the list you have right now. I recommend running in VoD (any direction you like) and screening with a fair amount of expendable units. You'll take heavy losses, but so long as you have a core of 3-6 level 3s, the rest of the campaign should not prove insurmountable.

As always, the BEST thing you can do while asking for help in scenarios is to attach either a start of scenario save and/or a replay. With the save, you can examine replays other people submit to understand their strategy (and a glimpse into the tactics of others can't hurt either). With a replay, you can get a turn by turn critique of what you did right, and where others would improve.

[HomerJ]

I recommend running in VoD (any direction you like) and screening with a fair amount of expendable units. You'll take heavy losses, but so long as you have a core of 3-6 level 3s, the rest of the campaign should not prove insurmountable.

QFT. Use thieves as meatshields. Running for the south east mountains usually works for me.


Greetz
HomerJ

[stegyre]

I've played these on multiple difficulties, from easy to hard (plus an unfinished challege I was working on). The problem with your strategy, stegyre, is that you lost the one could gain from the high level troops. Later levels (on hard at least) spew and spew enemy units at you can you can't possibly even make it to the back of the map with scouts. On needs to have plenty of level 3s (and expendable too) by then.

I respectfully disagree: I attach the following replay, 1.8.5, victory on turn 8. I admit, I only play on hard, but if the strategy works on hard, I would expect it to work on easier levels, too. You do have to work around her reinforcements, but in practice, that turns out not to be a problem, as the time it takes to get into position naturally puts one right around this point, when the turn 5 reinforcements have vacated and the turn 10 reinforcements haven't yet arrived.

However, do not credit or blame me for this strategy. I learned it from my betters in these forums.

EDIT: Just giving credit where it's due, in the feedback thread, Santi (four years ago) is the first to mention the assassination strategy, using horsemen, rather than silver mages, and even claims this makes the scenario "too easy." Borisblue notes much the same, giving the scenario a difficulty of "8 without using cheap assassination tactics, 2 if you go for the quick lancer thing." Clonkinator, in 2009, seems to be the first to reference using scouts and silver mages for the assassination.