Weldyn Channel as Undead?

[Zruty]

Hello everyone, I think I never posted before.

I've had a game of Knalgans (me) vs Undead (both random initially) on Weldyn Channel recently, which I won.
My opponent kept telling me that this matchup was too uneven on this map, and that Undead do not stand a chance as player 2 on this map.

I can understand his reasoning, what with all the undead lack of mobility, and poor ghosts' movement over water. But I think it's not that harsh, you can still play OK with undead there, if you mass up enough forces on one flank. I never did it myself though, so could anyone spare some thoughts on how to play Undead as player2 on WC?

Thanks

[Just_end_turn]

Well, I don't think there's a particular imbaance there... It's not as if you couldn't see what's going on deep water, you've got bats to see, and if you're ennemy is stayng on deep water, you stay on land and take the vills. Knalgans have the gryph who can lucky kill your bats, but they arn't cheap. Finally, with UD you got submerge and skeletons, which can make very good traps against other races, and skeleton mov on water is better than the other melee units.

So, I don't think that Weldyn is unbalanced for Ud.

[Zruty]

Well, I don't think there's a particular imbaance there (...) Finally, with UD you got submerge and skeletons, which can make very good traps against other races, and skeleton mov on water is better than the other melee units.

Well, that was my thought too, that Undead has a viable strategy on this map. However, I didn't think of the submerge ability before.

I think the skeletons will only have movement range of 1 in deep water, and the defense as low as 10%, so ambushing won't be much of a use IMO.

[Araja]

Well, you never wait for someone to walk into you when you have 10% defence. You can climb out of the deep water onto better terrain before attacking people. Still happens in one turn, it's sort of a "pounce on them" moment.

[Yoyobuae]

Let's see, units that can move easily/semi-easily thru water hexes:

• Flyers: Drakes(fire breath),Gryphs(blade),Bats(blade),Ghost(arcane)
• Swimers: Merman fighter(pierce),Merman hunter(pierce),Naga fighter(blade)

Other than drakes/undead, the units that could attack water hexes have either blade or pierce damage. Skeletons resist pierce and blade damage. So I don't think 10% defense is that much of a set back.

The real problem is that skels are just way too slow moving thru water to be of any use there.

[Just_end_turn]

Actually you don't use them to fight, but to trap.

The player won't probably have enough units in range to kill your unit that turn (If he's drake, you should stay on land anyway) because they're often using water units as scouts (To see what you recruit), and you have probably enough units to zoc/kill the trapped unit. (If not, you've not correctly setup the trap). Also, you can hide on the deep water so he thinks you've only X units in defence, but you've X + 1 unit hiding, like you do with woses.

Finally, I played the exact same matchup today on ladder, and I was more worried about footies than Gryphs...

[Huumy]

As undead vs dwarves you might want to get lots of skeletons and walking corpses with few ghouls, ghosts and adepts. Defense first 2 days/nights if you can do this while not losing too many units, you should have army of mainly skeletons and WCs. Now you have the meat units you need to keep adepts alive. Start adding lots of adepts to your army and attack during night.
You don't even need to worry about the water, have 1 bat with your army and scout the water start of every turn (move 4 forth and 4 back) for any possible gryphons.

[wesfreak]

That won't work if the enemy goes anti-skeleton with mainly dwarf fighters. If they do that, than mainly using adepts, ghouls and ghosts is the best choice. If the enemy goes anti-adept with mostly outlaws and ulf, a mostly skeleton army would be best. Problem is, you don't know in advance.