The suicide bomber

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Rigor
Posts: 941
Joined: September 27th, 2007, 1:40 am

The suicide bomber

Post by Rigor »

The suicide bombers of wesnoth

I present to u a strategy that is brutal and lethal to both sides and reduces most games to an "either or all" decisive superattack with fatal consequences.

The general aim is to find essential units (like mages, healers, leaders, sometimes burners vs undeads) that are able to kill attackers with one or two strikes of retaliation.

Basically a whole offensive can be called off when a central unit dies, and one should eagerly try to find those units sometime during a game, especially during longer games. sometimes players are overconfident of their units HP and expose them way too much. This should ring a bell in your head and consider not only the CTK but also the CTD (the chance to die, obviously) on retaliation. if it looks like ur unit is pretty much going to die in this one attack it is worth a shot calculating how many suiciders are necessary to get the target down. If you fail, however, u still might have a "second chance" because the unit is so weakened that it cant be protected the next turn.

Savegame of a 2v2 attached
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4p_-_Xanthe_Chaos_Wiederholung_anzeigen.gz
suicide bombers
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Ferrous
Posts: 18
Joined: January 29th, 2009, 3:40 am

Re: The suicide bomber

Post by Ferrous »

Sounds like fun.

Does not sound practical.

I like strategies that instead give me the options of either "I win" or "you lose."

Just_end_turn
Posts: 71
Joined: December 31st, 2009, 3:09 pm

Re: The suicide bomber

Post by Just_end_turn »

Well when you're lost or in bad position it's usefull.

And also you can calculate the ctk, if it's enough for you, take it :)

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Elvish_Conquerer
Posts: 51
Joined: July 16th, 2009, 3:23 pm
Location: Canada

Re: The suicide bomber

Post by Elvish_Conquerer »

Ferrous wrote:Sounds like fun.

Does not sound practical.

I like strategies that instead give me the options of either "I win" or "you lose."
Who doesn't

@Rigor

This sort of sounds like a walking corpse assassination. For instance in Valley of the Dead if you leave an Elvish Champion on the West side (the WC spammer) then he'll just send a walking corpse to hit you, and when he dies, put another one there, and another one, untill you've been attacked by 25 walking corpses and are dead, not to mention REALLY pissed off. But ya, this works when you're in a pinch, or need to kill high level units. Best used with level 0's (also a goblin spearmen would be great considering it Damage to Gold Ratio, for more info visit the Goblin thread).

With Due Respect,

Elvish Conquerer
"Not only that! He made the AI so smart that, it changes the RNG without affecting statistical analysis! So even if you calculate the probability of getting what you got, it seems reasonable, even though it isn't. We've uncovered a massive conspiracy!"

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Rigor
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Joined: September 27th, 2007, 1:40 am

Re: The suicide bomber

Post by Rigor »

this goblin sucide movement even works against drakes during daytime :)

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Elvish_Conquerer
Posts: 51
Joined: July 16th, 2009, 3:23 pm
Location: Canada

Re: The suicide bomber

Post by Elvish_Conquerer »

Sounds like cruel and unusual torture to a Drake player, i'll be sure to try it :D
"Not only that! He made the AI so smart that, it changes the RNG without affecting statistical analysis! So even if you calculate the probability of getting what you got, it seems reasonable, even though it isn't. We've uncovered a massive conspiracy!"

Tarsus
Posts: 4
Joined: October 8th, 2009, 3:22 pm

Re: The suicide bomber

Post by Tarsus »

lol, If someone did this to me I'd burn them to cinders. Sounds like fun if you're undead or notherners though :D

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Rigor
Posts: 941
Joined: September 27th, 2007, 1:40 am

Re: The suicide bomber

Post by Rigor »

its funny how you imagine that there is a line of units and i will run against your wall with my goblins.

no, its not like that. usually the units that are going to blow up targets are not only isolated, but mostly zoc'ed as well. so they wont run away anytime soon, even if they survived the attackers deadly blows.

and we can play that game anytime, you pick drakes, i pick orcs, and assuming you build drakish units you can expect me attacking you sometime with those pesky goblins, depending how you play it also during daytime. my time zone is central europe, you can PM me if u find me on the server.

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Icarusvogel
Posts: 177
Joined: March 16th, 2010, 1:55 pm

Re: The suicide bomber

Post by Icarusvogel »

Is your name Rigor on MP as well?
You are a Necromancer - Intelligent and powerful, yet reclusive and misunderstood, you dabble in dark arts that everyone else can only dream of.

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Rigor
Posts: 941
Joined: September 27th, 2007, 1:40 am

Re: The suicide bomber

Post by Rigor »

it would surprise me if you found another rigor online, because that would mean this other rigor knows my password :!:

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Rigor
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Joined: September 27th, 2007, 1:40 am

Re: The suicide bomber

Post by Rigor »

the suicide bomber in action:

http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download/file.php?id=41986

93 turns game

Velensk
Multiplayer Contributor
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Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Re: The suicide bomber

Post by Velensk »

I'd hardly think you could call it a suicide bomber if it lasted 93 turns.

Of course, that dosn't mean it isn't a good game to watch.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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Rigor
Posts: 941
Joined: September 27th, 2007, 1:40 am

Re: The suicide bomber

Post by Rigor »

here i strongly disagree.

of course it was a suicide bomber tactics that plk2 used.


how else would you explain the high goblin eeh usage (casualties)? i ran the RP once more, the total stats were 27 grunts (1 lvlup), 23 gobos (1 lvlup) used, and the next unit that he could put to use was the wolf with 5 recruits (of which 2 leveled up). that means, if u put gobos and grunts on one level, those were in 90,9% of the case his recruit preferences!!!!!!!!!!!!! just imagine, u win a game with that.

and lets go a little more into detail here: the gobos were his preferred first attacking force, as well as his first shield in many cases. when attacking, he used gobos, which sometimes got killed because of the fighters 3/4 strikes on 40%. but that was not really a big deal for him. when retreating, he could weaken the enemy force by gobo use so that the counter would not take place or to kill crucial units on the field (well that often didnt work out causing a very long game).

often he also tried a simple leaderkill which didnt work out but burned lots of units all the same.

if u dont see this as a perfect example of a suicide bomber then i cant provide any better. maybe also worthwile to point out that this tactics worked really well because tdw_florent built 40 fighters of which more than 10% leveled up. all the more surprising that plk2 could win eh ? but he didnt have those 5 lvlups at once of course.

oberon
Posts: 25
Joined: February 27th, 2010, 10:59 am

Re: The suicide bomber

Post by oberon »

I am not sure suicide bomb is a good description: a suicide bomb is hugely asymmetrical: lots of damage from a small (even one individual), low value force.

The other characteristic of real life suicide bombs is that they are a last resort when losing: the originators of the modern suicide bomb were close to losing their main stronghold, their middle eastern imitators had lost and were up against a massively more powerful enemy, even Kamikaze pilots were on the obviously losing side. Of course, the reasons its a lost resort may not translate well into Wesnoth!

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Rigor
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Joined: September 27th, 2007, 1:40 am

Re: The suicide bomber

Post by Rigor »

i think the other titles like "gambit" or "burning grunts" or "cannon fodder" might be another good description for the same thing. dont forget to mention chechens who r in conflict with russia on its southern border, or the german hitlerjugend which was used to delay the storm of lost cities.

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