Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Share and discuss strategies for playing the game, and get help and tips from other players.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

rocket16
Posts: 12
Joined: February 21st, 2010, 8:07 pm

Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Post by rocket16 » February 21st, 2010, 8:13 pm

Hello all, just joined the Forum. By the way, I am an Undead player. But in the Online-Matches, I see that the Drakes are oddly overpowered. They have 1. Good Speed 2. Powerful Ranged Attack, 3. Powerful Melee Attack 4. Saurians to heal them 5. Great Attack count, I mean attacking 4 to 6 times at a turn. I would like to make a request to the developers to fix this issue. The Drakes can not really be countered effectively, by any other faction. But this is against the rules of Strategy-games. Please reduce the power of Drakes. :geek:

User avatar
Gambit
Loose Screw
Posts: 3266
Joined: August 13th, 2008, 3:00 pm
Location: Dynamica
Contact:

Re: Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Post by Gambit » February 21st, 2010, 8:21 pm

Wait... drakes are overpowered against undead? :lol2:
We're thinking of the same drakes right? The ones that are weak to cold and have terrible defense.


edit: First line was bass ackwards.
Last edited by Gambit on February 21st, 2010, 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Post by thespaceinvader » February 21st, 2010, 8:22 pm

Lol, no. If you think the Drakes are overpowered, I suggest you prove it. Playtest them. Against the best players.

A subtle hint: the Drakes' main weaknesses are night, cost, and cold and pierce weapons.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.

Sangel
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 2232
Joined: March 26th, 2004, 10:58 pm
Location: New York, New York

Re: Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Post by Sangel » February 21st, 2010, 8:41 pm

thespaceinvader wrote:Lol, no. If you think the Drakes are overpowered, I suggest you prove it. Playtest them. Against the best players.

A subtle hint: the Drakes' main weaknesses are night, cost, and cold and pierce weapons.
And their chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Their two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Their *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope... Their *four*...no... *Amongst* their weapons.... Amongst their weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise....

I'll come in again.
"Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

User avatar
Captain_Wrathbow
Posts: 1664
Joined: June 30th, 2009, 2:03 pm
Location: Guardia

Re: Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Post by Captain_Wrathbow » February 21st, 2010, 9:15 pm

Oh no, another faction imbalance complaint thread... :annoyed:
At one time or another, every faction has been proposed to be overpowered. Default has been being played and worked on and balanced for literally years. The devs and every good player agree that the factions are balanced. Nothing's gonna change. In fact this thread will probably be locked soon...

User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Post by thespaceinvader » February 21st, 2010, 9:18 pm

Please don't second guess the moderation team. Threads don;t get locked simply for existing. It will be locked if the behaviour of posters in the thread demands it.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.

User avatar
Dunno
Posts: 773
Joined: January 17th, 2010, 4:06 pm
Location: Behind you

Re: Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Post by Dunno » February 21st, 2010, 9:23 pm

usually when a player loses a match they look for an excuse. In real-time games they say "lag" or "low fps" and in Wesnoth they say "bad luck" or "unbalanced era". If the drakes are "overpowered" to you just play with them
Oh, I'm sorry, did I break your concentration?

User avatar
Captain_Wrathbow
Posts: 1664
Joined: June 30th, 2009, 2:03 pm
Location: Guardia

Re: Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Post by Captain_Wrathbow » February 21st, 2010, 9:27 pm

thespaceinvader wrote:Please don't second guess the moderation team. Threads don;t get locked simply for existing. It will be locked if the behaviour of posters in the thread demands it.
Sorry. I won't do it again.

Eskon
Posts: 184
Joined: August 12th, 2008, 2:21 pm
Location: Esslingen, Germany

Re: Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Post by Eskon » February 21st, 2010, 10:33 pm

In short, no, drakes are not overpowered against any faction. Their units are fast, but they don't have much staying power: Saurians have low HP and several weaknesses, but only 40% on open terrain; Drakes tend to have higher than average HP but their level 1s cannot exceed 40% defense and only have 30% on open terrain. Add to this the weaknesses of drakes, namely the terrible, terrible weaknesses to cold (you as an undead player should know what to do) and arcane (though this only tends to come in with the undead ghost and the level 2 elvish sorceress), and the less terrible, but noticable weakness to pierce attacks. Drakes have few hope of withstanding a serious assault, lacking the numbers or defense to do it, so they use their mobility to stay out of the way. Battling a good drake requires a strong defense, which requires an understanding of ZoC, how to use terrain, and which units to use.

Players new to the game tend to lack this understanding, and by my impression players who open threads in the manner you did also often lack the patience and self-consciusness to learn to understand Wesnoth strategy. Please prove me wrong.

Caphriel
Posts: 994
Joined: April 21st, 2008, 4:10 pm

Re: Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Post by Caphriel » February 21st, 2010, 10:59 pm

If you provide replays of games that you think demonstrate that the drakes are overpowered, helpful forum members will point out where you made mistakes.

Noy
Inactive Developer
Posts: 1321
Joined: March 13th, 2005, 3:59 pm

Re: Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Post by Noy » February 21st, 2010, 11:08 pm

Oblivious Poster. Requires Education.
I suspect having one foot in the past is the best way to understand the present.

Don Hewitt.

The Great Rings
Posts: 738
Joined: January 26th, 2008, 10:39 pm
Location: On the front line of battle, defying hopeless odds

Re: Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Post by The Great Rings » February 22nd, 2010, 4:10 am

Eskon wrote:Drakes have few hope of withstanding a serious assault, lacking the numbers or defense to do it, so they use their mobility to stay out of the way.
I'm almost surprised no one has mentioned using Shamans or other units with the ability to slow in order to counter Drake speed.

Personally, while a good player could of course counter Drakes with any faction, I think that Rebels are generally best suited to it. They have the arcane damage type (mage), powerful ranged units, lots of piercing units (Archers, Merman Hunters, Scouts, and Fighters), plus of course the Shaman, which can slow the Drakes and is also the only level one healer in the game besides the Saurian Augur.
"One man alone cannot fight the future"-
The X-files

"Send these foul beasts into the abyss"-Gandalf

Caphriel
Posts: 994
Joined: April 21st, 2008, 4:10 pm

Re: Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Post by Caphriel » February 22nd, 2010, 2:33 pm

Maybe because he was complaining about drakes vs undead? Also, the rebels do not have arcane damage available at level 1. They have to level a mage or a shaman to get arcane damage. And the drake pierce weakness isn't enough to increase the damage done by fighters or non-dexterous archers, although they won't run into the blade or impact resistance... But then again, the blade resistance is not enough to reduce the damage non-strong fighters do, either. I agree, though, that the shaman is very useful against the drakes; tremendously so.

Yoyobuae
Posts: 408
Joined: July 24th, 2009, 8:38 pm

Re: Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Post by Yoyobuae » February 22nd, 2010, 4:47 pm

rocket16 wrote:Hello all, just joined the Forum. By the way, I am an Undead player. But in the Online-Matches, ...*snip*
Well, there's your problem. The moment you pick a faction, your asking for trouble. If you think undead have it tough against drakes, that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Wesnoth is not balanced so that you pick any faction, in fact most serious multiplayer players don't. My advice, unless you wan't to work extra hard to become one of the few successful MP faction specialist (or die trying), choose Random. You'll probable learn faster, wont get continually drake'd (or worst) and at least get a bit more survivability (less effective initial recruiting against random).

In fact, many of the above suggestions come from how these players experience the faction by choosing Random, then getting Undead, which in my opinion is very different from choosing them directly.

donkey_noob_trash1
Posts: 147
Joined: March 1st, 2009, 6:16 am

Re: Overpowered Faction. Requires reduction.

Post by donkey_noob_trash1 » February 23rd, 2010, 10:25 am

Sangel wrote:
thespaceinvader wrote:Lol, no. If you think the Drakes are overpowered, I suggest you prove it. Playtest them. Against the best players.

A subtle hint: the Drakes' main weaknesses are night, cost, and cold and pierce weapons.
And their chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Their two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Their *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope... Their *four*...no... *Amongst* their weapons.... Amongst their weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise....

I'll come in again.
Most awesome post ever :D
"Oh noes, I'm trapped by corporeal beings!" -Caphriel (in a discussion about ghosts and ZoC)

Post Reply