Drakes vs Random, initial recruit

[Des]

It's worth noting, Yoyobuae, that there are 8 villages on the Freelands, but only 6 recruiting hexes, so generally, nobody can capture all their villages on their second turn. One village is 9 hexes away from the nearest castle hex, which means that only quick units or elvish scouts can grab it on turn 2.

And if the Loyalists want to attack you over the first night, you should welcome them. If they want to trade a horseman for a fighter, great! If you recruited a couple of saurians in your first batch or two of recruits, you should slaughter them handily if they push at night, or at least do pretty good damage. As a drake player, you should be attacking Loyalists at night and running away during the day. If they come to you at night, that makes your job easier.

Agreed. You gain 6 gold by trading a fighter for a horseman. And it won't be hard at all killing a horseman, even with full hp, with skirmishers at night. They are also weak to pierce.

[Yoyobuae]

Ok, my mistake. I got confused, on the replays loys were attacking after the first night, not before it.

[Caphriel]

In order to soften the Loyalist attack after the first night, you need to pressure them during that night. That means you need some saurians in your initial recruit. You don't necessarily have to kill anything, but you have to push them back far enough that you have space to retreat during the day without losing all your villages.

[psychic]

My initial recruits vs random are 1 clasher,1 fighter, 1 augur, 1 skirmisher. 1 scout depending on the map and any other first turn recruit personal play style which in my case is either another augur or fighter depending on other recruits traits/map.

One each of the first 4 recruits find use against any match up and even though scouts fighting abilities are not up to par like every other scout, atleast 1 of it is esential in most 1v1 maps for village grabbing(obviously) the only reliable hitting drake which can finish off things and the only drake to get 50% defense on level up.

[ParadiseCity]

@ParadiseCity: Is that you're initial recruit when randomed into drakes or choosing them directly?

That would be when choosing directly. I find that the additional saurians throws off opponents who will recruit mostly pierce v. Drakes. If I randomed into it, I would include less saurians and more fighters. Of course, it would depend on the map as well.

@psychic
You may want to be careful in recruiting more than one augur, if one at all, because of the possibility of a undead random. They are utterly useless unless using as a poison shield, in which I would only recruit one.

[psychic]

@psychic
You may want to be careful in recruiting more than one augur, if one at all, because of the possibility of a undead random. They are utterly useless unless using as a poison shield, in which I would only recruit one.

I clearly mentioned anything apart from the ones i mentioned as must haves are personal preference/ play style choices. You should read before quoting someone

[ParadiseCity]

@psychic
You may want to be careful in recruiting more than one augur, if one at all, because of the possibility of a undead random. They are utterly useless unless using as a poison shield, in which I would only recruit one.

I clearly mentioned anything apart from the ones i mentioned as must haves are personal preference/ play style choices. You should read before quoting someone

I assure you that I did read your post, as I am not one who randomly joins a thread midway through without making certain of what has been said before. In addition, regardless of if it is your personal playstyle or not, I still felt it necessary to caution you about recruiting two augurs. The fact that it is your personal playstyle does nothing to make my statement wrong or unneeded as you seem to suggest.

In addition, I seem to recall something about

My initial recruits vs random are 1 clasher,1 fighter, 1 augur, 1 skirmisher.

One each of the first 4 recruits find use against any match up

My arguement was that even one augur was a risky initial recruit. I don't see how you think that I did not read your statement, as it clearly says that you recruit one augur in the initial recruit.

In any case, I suggest that you heed your own advice as well.

[psychic]

I clearly mentioned anything apart from the ones i mentioned as must haves are personal preference/ play style choices. You should read before quoting someone

I assure you that I did read your post, as I am not one who randomly joins a thread midway through without making certain of what has been said before. In addition, regardless of if it is your personal playstyle or not, I still felt it necessary to caution you about recruiting two augurs. The fact that it is your personal playstyle does nothing to make my statement wrong or unneeded as you seem to suggest.

Oh well let us stop the arguement along the lines whether we read each others post or not It is evident we both read, i got confused because your wording did not strongly question even a single augur recruit.

My arguement was that even one augur was a risky initial recruit. I don't see how you think that I did not read your statement, as it clearly says that you recruit one augur in the initial recruit.

For this though, you do not have a reliable finisher in the dusk/dawn/night time against UD and their melee impact also works against skele archers.

[Yoyobuae]

*snip*
For this though, you do not have a reliable finisher in the dusk/dawn/night time against UD and their melee impact also works against skele archers.

And melee-less DAs. They don't have the best melee of any lv1 mage for nothing. What better way to shove into your opponents face the evident weakness of DAs than to smack them silly with augur's staff.

[siowy]

i like to get all fighters vs random.

they are good together

[ParadiseCity]

Oh well let us stop the arguement along the lines whether we read each others post or not

Agreed.

For this though, you do not have a reliable finisher in the dusk/dawn/night time against UD and their melee impact also works against skele archers.

Dawn/Dusk
In terms of Undead:
Gliders have a 7-2 (8-2 if strong) melee impact attack.
Augurs have a 5-2 (6-2 if strong) melee impact attack.

Gliders have a 4-3 ranged attack.
Augurs have a 2-3 ranged attack.

In both cases, a glider outperforms an augur.

Night
In terms of undead:
Gliders have a 5-2 (6-2) melee
Augurs have a 6-2 (7-2) melee

Gliders have a 3-3 ranged
Augurs have a 3-3 ranged

Even during its unfavorable time of day, a glider still performs basically as well as an augur

In addition, this isn't even considering:
-How drastically a glider will outperform an augur during day.
-The glider's better movement and movetype.
-The glider's better durability.

Essentially, if you did want a "finishing unit", an augur would still not be the best choice.

[Yoyobuae]

vs Undead, I would not have more than one of either. Unless the opponent goes heavy on skele archers, then Gliders shine.

But in any other case I would say both are more less equally worth on the matchup. Gliders are valuable against skeles and because of their speed. Augurs are valuable for their healing/poison negation and are good enough against Ghouls/Bats. Of course this means their use depends largely on the opponent's recruit.

[psychic]

@ paradisecity by ud i meant the whole faction, so ghouls and bats are included and all these are beyond their support role, as in poison damage prevention and 4 heal is not to be underestimated which can prevent a 1 shot kill and allow units to be used in combat again and they level real quick to become much better units.

[Pentarctagon]

I could also map the village to village moves of all one vs one scenarios, and prove that 2 augers are optimal in a drake vs drake match-up, both for village gathering and battle. Then give damage and hit chance values to show how the same 2 augers will be utterly ineffective in combat with almost any given undead army.

I absolutely have no idea how your reply answers my question

Or I could forgo that in favor of writing to someone who hasn't picked me out to be a debate rival. You stopped trying to convince me of anything along time ago.

It was absolutely stupid of me to pick an argument with a noob. A good lesson learnt and there will be no further replies to you.

paradisecity by ud i meant the whole faction, so ghouls and bats are included and all these are beyond their support role,

hm, i have no idea what you mean by this, so ill just call you a noob and not think about it anymore.

[ParadiseCity]

@ paradisecity by ud i meant the whole faction, so ghouls and bats are included and all these are beyond their support role, as in poison damage prevention and 4 heal is not to be underestimated which can prevent a 1 shot kill and allow units to be used in combat again and they level real quick to become much better units.

Well of course, when considering anything you must consider the whole picture. However, bats are a small threat, not enough to warrant creating a specific unit to counter them. A glider has marksman, which is about as useful as magical (seeing as you would be attacking the bat). The typical drake mobility also limits the bat's threat of stealing villages, so if you effectively ZoC off the bats you shouldn't have to worry about bats too much.

In addition, a single ghoul will not pose too much a problem to drakes if, before you see it coming, you recruit a burner. In addition, a fighter could be recruited for only one more gold, which would allow you to actually kill the ghoul.

The whole idea behind my arguement is that since this is the initial recruit, you can always adapt later. If you use your glider and fighters to find that the opponent is using lots of ghouls, then recruiting an augur would be ok. Likewise, if you see that he is going heavy on bats, an augur might be needed. However, against common undead tactics v. drakes, an augur is not an optimal initial recruit.