gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

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spir
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gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

Post by spir » October 1st, 2009, 2:26 pm

Hello,

I have a gold problem in Legend of Wesmere (medium level, wesnoth 1.7.5), precisely around Breaking the Siege.
The point is I start there with 100 gold only, which allows recalling no more than 5 units. Then I can hardly kill the 3 leaders in less than 30 turns, which in turn lets me start A Costly Revenge with about 300 gold -- far too less, I guess (especially if I want all my lvl3 fighters to die there ;-)).

The issue is that the previous scenarios are a mix of dialog-only ones, a survival one (Human Alliance), and a purely kill one (The Chief Must Die), none of which seem to allow gold changes. Actually, the last gold bonus scenario is the long past Battle for the Book, that I remember having finished quite early for I had some luck with the drakes and the trolls couldn't oppose my dwarves' axes.

Anyway, with all these special scenarios before, I am not able to know whether 100 gold is a fix or minimal amount for Breaking the Siege. Please tell me whether you had more -- and in either case in how many turns you finish the scenario, or how much gold you have for Costly Revenge.

Tactique: in Breaking the Siege, I fought on 2 fronts.
I sent Cleodil, 2 lvl3 riders, and a quick enchanteress ready to level-up, north to rush & help my ally (last time I played it they paused a bit along the way to kill isolated units and grab villages, but when I arrived the blue leader was poisoned and nearly dead). Everything went fine on that side, they were still fighting well and we could defeat the assault easily, kill the NE leader and start attacking the NW keep.
In the meanwhile, Kalenz, Landar, Olurf plus another enchantress (who would also level-up to sylph) and another shyde, formed a killer commando toward the SW leader. There was some difficulty there due to the sheer difference of unit count, especially to avoid a unit be attacked from too many fronts. Then the shyde and the new sylph could fly up there and kill the last, already attacked, orc leader.
--> 29 turns for a 36 turn limit. Comments welcome.
Denis
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lotsofphil
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Re: gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

Post by lotsofphil » October 1st, 2009, 2:48 pm

spir wrote:Hello,

I have a gold problem in Legend of Wesmere (medium level, wesnoth 1.7.5), precisely around Breaking the Siege.
The point is I start there with 100 gold only
100 gold seems a little low. I am not sure what I had. Even so, 100 gold is 5 recalls. You get Kalenz, Landar and Cleodil for free (and Olurf, but he is useless in this level).
spir wrote: Tactique: in Breaking the Siege, I fought on 2 fronts.
I sent Cleodil, 2 lvl3 riders, and a quick enchanteress ready to level-up, north to rush & help my ally (last time I played it they paused a bit along the way to kill isolated units and grab villages, but when I arrived the blue leader was poisoned and nearly dead). Everything went fine on that side, they were still fighting well and we could defeat the assault easily, kill the NE leader and start attacking the NW keep.
In the meanwhile, Kalenz, Landar, Olurf plus another enchantress (who would also level-up to sylph) and another shyde, formed a killer commando toward the SW leader. There was some difficulty there due to the sheer difference of unit count, especially to avoid a unit be attacked from too many fronts. Then the shyde and the new sylph could fly up there and kill the last, already attacked, orc leader.
--> 29 turns for a 36 turn limit. Comments welcome.
What is your recall list?

The safest/simplest strategy is to send your units straight north to help your ally. When he is safe, send most of your units west and a few (1 or 2 with a healer) to the east. When the northwest enemy is dead, send your troops south.
A faster way is to send 1 unit north to save your ally. Send all your flying units straight west to take out the southwest enemy. Then sweep north.
See the wiki: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/LegendofWes ... _the_Siege

I think your biggest problem is probably lack of strong units, not lack of gold. 5 Slyphs/Shydes and Cleodil will make this level very easy.

spir
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Re: gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

Post by spir » October 1st, 2009, 3:43 pm

lotsofphil wrote: What is your recall list?
Well, my recall list is 35 units of all kinds, 19 of which beeing level 3 (& 2 enchantresses ready to become sylphes)! Hadn't noticed there were so may before you asked... but 10 of them are dwarves (6 lvl3)
But actually I have no sylph yet. The reason why I send these 2 outriders north.
I also recall the enchantresses because I know they will be vital later (as sylphes), and the other ones will fight against me.
This said, I really would like to know if normally one should have more than 100 gold to start this scenario. I suspect maybe no 'cause you get a fifth unit at start in addition to the heroes. And as I said above I don't understand if/how gold could be carried over these 5 non-standard scenarios.
Denis
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spir
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Re: gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

Post by spir » October 1st, 2009, 4:56 pm

Tried other tactical options (rush all north or all west) with about the same.

Well, I guess anyway this campaign requires the player to know in advance about several unusual features and surprises. I read the wiki walkthrough -- too late. Maybe there could be early hints about the shaman line -- esp. the sorceress branch. Why not even a early scenario where only shamans can be recalled/recruited: this would lead to several promotions more in this line -- esp. the sorceress branch.

I had 2 shydes and 2 almost-sylphes at start of Breaking the Siege, which is I guess far enough for the campaign requirements so far and rather good advancement on medium after a dozen levels. But this seems short.
Denis
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lotsofphil
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Re: gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

Post by lotsofphil » October 1st, 2009, 5:49 pm

spir wrote:Tried other tactical options (rush all north or all west) with about the same.

Well, I guess anyway this campaign requires the player to know in advance about several unusual features and surprises. I read the wiki walkthrough -- too late. Maybe there could be early hints about the shaman line -- esp. the sorceress branch. Why not even a early scenario where only shamans can be recalled/recruited: this would lead to several promotions more in this line -- esp. the sorceress branch.

I had 2 shydes and 2 almost-sylphes at start of Breaking the Siege, which is I guess far enough for the campaign requirements so far and rather good advancement on medium after a dozen levels. But this seems short.
I'll look this evening and see how much gold I had. Your recall list seems strong enough but, like you say, maybe you could have put your levels in more useful places. The campaign does "throw away" a lot of your units without warning: all non-loyal, non-shaman elves go away; all dwarves go away. A note somewhere along the line about "with Cleodil around you should actively incorporate her shamans into your forces" seems like the right thing. Not sure where or how to do that though.

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santi
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Re: gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

Post by santi » November 19th, 2009, 8:30 am

Just a correction: The dwarves are not useless, IMHO: I send 3 dwarvish lords to take out the eastern commander; Once they get there(which does take sometime), they make short work of the orcs; unlike the elves who would have to fight in unfavorable terrain.

I also take exception to Human Alliance being a killer scenario; You should make gold on this one,
or at the very worst hold your own. If you are not, you are not being very efficient.

On losing units without warning: I think this is a plus, because it is in tune with the storyline.
You could not have possibly foreseen this, just like in real life and this is the challenge. Of course, you can play on easy. For my taste, easy is too uninteresting, but that need not be your situation.

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TheBladeRoden
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Re: gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

Post by TheBladeRoden » June 8th, 2010, 6:51 am

santi wrote:Just a correction: The dwarves are not useless, IMHO: I send 3 dwarvish lords to take out the eastern commander; Once they get there(which does take sometime), they make short work of the orcs; unlike the elves who would have to fight in unfavorable terrain.

I also take exception to Human Alliance being a killer scenario; You should make gold on this one,
or at the very worst hold your own. If you are not, you are not being very efficient.

On losing units without warning: I think this is a plus, because it is in tune with the storyline.
You could not have possibly foreseen this, just like in real life and this is the challenge. Of course, you can play on easy. For my taste, easy is too uninteresting, but that need not be your situation.
lol, at the end of Human Alliance I had -636 gold
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Caphriel
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Re: gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

Post by Caphriel » June 8th, 2010, 1:01 pm

santi wrote:On losing units without warning: I think this is a plus, because it is in tune with the storyline.
You could not have possibly foreseen this, just like in real life and this is the challenge.
It may be good storytelling, but it from a gaming perspective, it's a campaign-level tomato surprise.

Thrash
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Re: gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

Post by Thrash » June 25th, 2010, 2:10 pm

TheBladeRoden wrote:
santi wrote: I also take exception to Human Alliance being a killer scenario; You should make gold on this one,
or at the very worst hold your own. If you are not, you are not being very efficient.
lol, at the end of Human Alliance I had -636 gold
I with you and OP on this one, I ended up way negative on Human Alliance and am not trying to fight through Breaking the Siege with 100 starting gold.

I've been splitting into two groups - one west and one north - but one of my principals keeps getting killed by sudden attackers from the fog or if I'm cautious Uradredia gets killed before I get to them.

I do have a Slyph, 2 Shydes and a Sorceress - based on comments in this thread I'll try using them as the core of my recalls and sending everyone North.

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Re: gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

Post by Thrash » June 27th, 2010, 4:26 pm

Thrash wrote:I do have a Slyph, 2 Shydes and a Sorceress - based on comments in this thread I'll try using them as the core of my recalls and sending everyone North.
Using Slyph and 2 Shydes definitely good idea, they were able to wipe the NW and NE orcs fairly easily, but I ran out of time (and into pack of hounds) before I could get back to SW orcs.

Sorceress (and Shaman I recruited) was useless, way too slow. In general, I'm trying to figure out what to do with all my non-flying characters, seems like they are too slow to get to allies, NW or NE orcs, in time to do anything. If they go to SW they are overmatched with wolves.

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Re: gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

Post by Thrash » June 28th, 2010, 5:09 am

Thrash wrote:Using Slyph and 2 Shydes definitely good idea, they were able to wipe the NW and NE orcs fairly easily, but I ran out of time (and into pack of hounds) before I could get back to SW orcs.

Sorceress (and Shaman I recruited) was useless, way too slow. In general, I'm trying to figure out what to do with all my non-flying characters, seems like they are too slow to get to allies, NW or NE orcs, in time to do anything. If they go to SW they are overmatched with wolves.
I give up.

I've been sending my band of Slyph and 3 Shydes to help Urad, then take out the NW then SW Orcs. Problem is I have no one to leave behind to guard Urad, so he randomly dies, usually just as I'm getting close.

If I send Kalenz and two loyal sharpshooter into the woods, they attract Orcs like a lightning rod, which is good for Urad, but they cannot survive and either Kalenz or Landar dies... If they stay in the original castle, they can hold their own, but then I'm back to the Urad dying problem.

I agree with the comment made earlier in the thread, 3 dwarves make nice work of the NE orcs (though it's a pain if one get poisoned). They get there about turn 25 (if Urad makes it that long).

So I don't see how you can beet this scenario with min gold and only 1 Slyph and 2 Shydes to recall. Maybe with another Slyph and Shyde - then I might be able to split them, take out the NW and NE orcs at the same time and then go after the SW.

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Re: gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

Post by TheBladeRoden » June 28th, 2010, 3:39 pm

Here's what I did. 2 Sylphs and 2 Shydes up the right side to wipe out black team. One Outrider up the middle for village capturing. All of the loyal units going to the left to combat green team. Then the fairie group goes left to assassinate purple leader.
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Thrash
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Re: gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

Post by Thrash » June 28th, 2010, 6:26 pm

TheBladeRoden wrote:Here's what I did. 2 Sylphs and 2 Shydes up the right side to wipe out black team. One Outrider up the middle for village capturing. All of the loyal units going to the left to combat green team. Then the fairie group goes left to assassinate purple leader.
Thanks. I appreciate the tip.

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Re: gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

Post by Thrash » June 28th, 2010, 7:13 pm

TheBladeRoden wrote:Here's what I did. 2 Sylphs and 2 Shydes up the right side to wipe out black team. One Outrider up the middle for village capturing. All of the loyal units going to the left to combat green team. Then the fairie group goes left to assassinate purple leader.
Hmmm, that seems to work except for the loyal units going west - they do OK until orcs come down from the forest and flank them and then they get butchered. For loyal troops, I've got two sharpshooters (one Lander) and Oluf. I'm recalling one more dwarf lord for some melee muscle. I wish I had a Sylph or even a druid for some healing.

My contingent of 3 Sylphs and a Shyde had no problem mopping up the NE leader. The outrider up the middle is a little risky, he was having to run through goblin wolf-riders, but made it without about half his HP and was enough to keep Urad alive until the Sylph/Shyde contingent got there after finishing off the NE leader.

Thrash
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Re: gold problem in LoW -- Breaking the Siege

Post by Thrash » June 28th, 2010, 9:41 pm

Thrash wrote:
TheBladeRoden wrote:Here's what I did. 2 Sylphs and 2 Shydes up the right side to wipe out black team. One Outrider up the middle for village capturing. All of the loyal units going to the left to combat green team. Then the fairie group goes left to assassinate purple leader.
Hmmm, that seems to work except for the loyal units going west - they do OK until orcs come down from the forest and flank them and then they get butchered. For loyal troops, I've got two sharpshooters (one Lander) and Oluf. I'm recalling one more dwarf lord for some melee muscle. I wish I had a Sylph or even a druid for some healing.

My contingent of 3 Sylphs and a Shyde had no problem mopping up the NE leader. The outrider up the middle is a little risky, he was having to run through goblin wolf-riders, but made it without about half his HP and was enough to keep Urad alive until the Sylph/Shyde contingent got there after finishing off the NE leader.
I did it! Thanks for your advice.

I ended up keeping Kalenz, the two loyal sharpshooters and a couple dwarf lords back at the garrison. With a few runs to the nearby village for poisoning, they held out with only one or two close calls.

The outrider was key to keeping Urad alive long enough for the flying elves to get to him after finishing off the NE orc. The NW orc was a piece of cake. The final orc was a real close call. I ended up getting swamped on my first approach and not being able to get close to him. So I had to retreat and come back from the NE (letting the orcs scatter a little). It was next to last turn when I finally got him and glad the scenario ended because at the point my flyers were surrounded and not going anywhere. The grunts getting in the way of the dire wolves probably saved me.

Ended up carrying over 239 gold to the next level... we'll see how that goes.

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