Leveling Choice: Grand Knight vs. Paladin

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TheJM
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Re: Leveling Choice: Grand Knight vs. Paladin

Post by TheJM » August 15th, 2009, 4:24 pm

Araja wrote:As soon as Skrim asked if there were any he missed I thought "Chocobone!" and as I read down I find someone else had already gotten there.
Ah well :)

What this seems to boil down to "Paladins can fight everything, Grand Knights can't" :wink:
Pretty much, the Paladin is more versatile than the Grand Knight, at the expense of attack power.


I've always preferred the Grand Knight, I think because it suits my playing style better. Obviously I use Paladins when I need them (IE, undead..), but I've always liked the higher HP and attack that a Grand Knight has. Plus is just looks cooler to have a Grand Knight leading the charge. ;)

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Aethaeryn
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Re: Leveling Choice: Grand Knight vs. Paladin

Post by Aethaeryn » August 15th, 2009, 4:32 pm

The1exile wrote:I've only ever seen Chocobones once. What campaigns are they in?
They're in the Isle of the Damned in HttT, and possibly another scenario or two in that campaign. I'm not sure about the others, but they could easily be in one or two.

I've seen them in custom MP scenarios.
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Skrim
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Re: Leveling Choice: Grand Knight vs. Paladin

Post by Skrim » August 15th, 2009, 5:26 pm

Chocobones are actually pretty common. They're in all of the HttT undead scenarios except for The Lost General, and they're in all the TRoW undead scenarios after landing on the Great Continent. I'm sure they appear in EI at some point too, though I can't remember at the moment.

The penultimate TRoW scenario has irritating Submerged Chocos who pop out of the sea and spear any melee-weak unit they can find. :annoyed:
The1exile wrote: Pretty much, the Paladin is more versatile than the Grand Knight, at the expense of attack power.
Exactly. The Grand Knights are generally quite a bit tougher and more damaging, but the Paladins are faster, have a rare melee Arcane attack(which is more effective in certain situations), are decent against everything, and have a nice minor healing ability.
Plus, I like the "warrior monk" image of the Paladin over the "heavy cavalry" image of the Grand Knight. :)


On a similar note, the Orcish Slurbow is actually my favorite archer. Because of it's versatility. With it's piercing and fire attacks, and a pretty decent melee blade, I don't think that there is any mainline unit which resists all of the Slurbows weapons. It may not do as much damage as an Elvish Sharpshooter, it may not be as tough as a Master Bowman, but unlike those other archers, there is no situation in which the Slurbow is rendered useless.

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chaoticwanderer
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Re: Leveling Choice: Grand Knight vs. Paladin

Post by chaoticwanderer » August 17th, 2009, 2:38 am

It's very similar to the choice you have when leveling a clasher.

You can choose a more versatile unit, or a unit that has more raw attack power.
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Araja
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Re: Leveling Choice: Grand Knight vs. Paladin

Post by Araja » August 17th, 2009, 12:53 pm

But the Slasher is partially protected from charges, as few cavalry want to trifle with a powerful piercing firstrike.

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Re: Leveling Choice: Grand Knight vs. Paladin

Post by thespaceinvader » August 17th, 2009, 12:56 pm

Charging any clasher line unit with a horseman line unit is pretty much asking for trouble. You'd be daft to do it, so it's not really an issue ;)

You get the Arbiter/Warden line for raw damage, and the other (name currently in flux) line for adaptability, particularly against the undead.
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Araja
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Re: Leveling Choice: Grand Knight vs. Paladin

Post by Araja » August 17th, 2009, 6:28 pm

Raw damage and firstrike.

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The1exile
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Re: Leveling Choice: Grand Knight vs. Paladin

Post by The1exile » August 20th, 2009, 1:31 am

Firststrike matters very little when units with high damage and hp have it. Since any unit attacking it is likely accepting it will take the full retaliation, and no standard era faction units have swarm, hitting before or after usually does nothing to affect the outcome of a fight. maybe it might stiop the odd horseman trying to chargekill a wounded Warden.
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Skrim
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Re: Leveling Choice: Grand Knight vs. Paladin

Post by Skrim » August 20th, 2009, 11:45 am

The1exile wrote:Firststrike matters very little when units with high damage and hp have it. Since any unit attacking it is likely accepting it will take the full retaliation, and no standard era faction units have swarm, hitting before or after usually does nothing to affect the outcome of a fight. maybe it might stiop the odd horseman trying to chargekill a wounded Warden.
Yeah, Firststrike is just a nice little freebie, not the main selling point of the Arbiter line. It's main advantages are it's greater total damage output, greater damage-per-strike, and Pierce resistance.

However, among all the first-strikers out there, the Arbiter line makes the best use of it by packing a lot of damage into that one strike. A non-strong Warden could bring down a non-resilient charging Knight from full HP in a single blow at dawn/dusk, before the Knight can even attempt an attack. An Arbiter could do the same thing to a Horseman. So these units really deter charging units.

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Xandria
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Re: Leveling Choice: Grand Knight vs. Paladin

Post by Xandria » August 26th, 2009, 10:22 am

Also, they are quite resilient against chain-suicides from walking corpses. (I still shudder at how my Konrad was eaten by them in walley of Death).
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The_great_new_thing
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Re: Leveling Choice: Grand Knight vs. Paladin

Post by The_great_new_thing » August 26th, 2009, 11:06 am

Xandria wrote:Also, they are quite resilient against chain-suicides from walking corpses. (I still shudder at how my Konrad was eaten by them in walley of Death).
I lost two paladins this exact way, one WC comes, re-dies, other one comes, re-dies, one more comes, re-dies and so on, till my paladin is 4 hp from dying, and the tenth WC comes and finishes him off :augh:
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Skrim
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Re: Leveling Choice: Grand Knight vs. Paladin

Post by Skrim » August 26th, 2009, 11:32 am

The_great_new_thing wrote:
Xandria wrote:Also, they are quite resilient against chain-suicides from walking corpses. (I still shudder at how my Konrad was eaten by them in walley of Death).
I lost two paladins this exact way, one WC comes, re-dies, other one comes, re-dies, one more comes, re-dies and so on, till my paladin is 4 hp from dying, and the tenth WC comes and finishes him off :augh:
Aye, that's the biggest problem with using Paladins against Undead - sometimes you get unlucky and it keeps killing everything that attacks it like a Berserker, until it runs out of HP or the enemy runs out of attackers. This 'problem' occurs with Walking Corpses/Soullesses, Skeletons, Chocobones, and Ghosts/Wraiths/Shadows.
Fortunately, it resists Blade, Impact and Arcane, and is fast enough to avoid a mob of that kind and let cheap meat L1 units take the hits. Chocobones could still be dangerous, but they are also quite rare.

I once lost a holy-water upgraded Grand Knight like this, but not before it had taken out 2 Revenents, 2 Chocobones, a Wraith and a couple of Skeletons.

And the WCs would get "dispelled", not "re-killed", though the latter is a rather more entertaining term. :)

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Araja
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Re: Leveling Choice: Grand Knight vs. Paladin

Post by Araja » August 26th, 2009, 1:22 pm

Prepare to re-die, foul undead! :lol2:

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