Bats: Flying Wonders?

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Skrim
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Skrim »

No, Bats don't cost more than Grunts. A Grunt takes 1 gold every turn as long as it's alive, exceeding the cost of the Bat in just 2 turns. The Bat is a 0-upkeep unit - you pay once and that's it.
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Pentarctagon
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Pentarctagon »

ugh...one more reason not to kill it lol.
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Mystery
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Mystery »

That's only true if the player has exceeded their free upkeep allotment! That's none too difficult for Northerners on most maps but keep in mind they have their own Level 0 unit if Upkeep comes into play. Goblin spam at high upkeep levels also makes much more sense than Bat spam, since Goblins are actually a quite capable combat unit.
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Aethaeryn
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Aethaeryn »

Mystery wrote:That's only true if the player has exceeded their free upkeep allotment! That's none too difficult for Northerners on most maps but keep in mind they have their own Level 0 unit if Upkeep comes into play. Goblin spam at high upkeep levels also makes much more sense than Bat spam, since Goblins are actually a quite capable combat unit.
Who in turn can be countered by Undead Walking Corpse spam.
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Zakalwe
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Zakalwe »

My theory is that the gigantic fungal growths that are mushroom grooves grow in damp dark caves, which are hard for most units to move through. Although this theory fails to explain why BATS are struggling to move through the caves (with mushrooms inside).

To take an analogy from Batman imagine Batman is walking around the Batcave and then BAM! out comes Poison Ivy (dressed as an Elvish Druid/Shyde?) and she grows some big evil mushrooms that try to knock Batman down and so his movement is slowed.

Okay, that was a bad analogy.

I have no idea why mushrooms cause so much movement problems.

Although if you do an image search on the internet you can probably find some pretty weird looking funguses. There are some large (over a foot diameter I think) funguses that are shaped like buckyballs or "cages". I find those to be really disturbing looking (they are bright red, IIRC) so maybe everyone gets so freaked/grossed out by the giant mushrooms their movement rate is slowed? Maybe the undead don't mind since they no longer have personalities so they get a bonus?
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Pentarctagon
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Pentarctagon »

maybe the fungus spores attach themselves to the units and then grow on them, thus slowing them down. then when the units leave the shroom-friendly environment they die and the unit can move freely again.

OT: it's amazing, i never expect this thread to get to 10 pages lol. then again, i didn't expect my brother's goldfish to be living and thriving after 5 years either (its pretty huge by now, and ironically it's name is zeus :shock: ).
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Araja
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Araja »

Or maybe having to walk around giant mushrooms and over a soft, squishy bed of little mushrooms is just hard for ground-units.
Imagine weaving between trees whilst standing on a giant pillow.

That's my belief anyway, that there isn't one reason, there's two:
1:Ground Unit Reason: explained
2:Flying Unit Reason: poisonous spores theory.

That's me anyway :)
SillySod
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by SillySod »

I recently played a game where a bat managed to kill a marauding skirmisher and then added support which was essential to holding an entire flank. Sadly his life was cut short by a white mage but not before making a little extra gold from village stealing.

I've linked the game as a tribute to that wonder bat :D
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Sapient
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Sapient »

No, the real reason why mushroom groves slow units down is because the mushrooms are extremely tasty. Units can't resist stopping to munch on them. Skeletal units are free from this distraction (because they don't require normal food) so they get a defense bonus.
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Araja
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Araja »

:D
gorgolok
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by gorgolok »

Psilocybin.
Psilocybin is present in hundreds of species of fungi [...] The effects of psilocybin are highly variable [...] Initially the subject may begin to feel somewhat disoriented, lethargic...

So the groves are full of magic shrooms, that give off clouds of spores full of psilocybin. As undead units lack the receptors to start tripping, they can just move through, but other units get a slight buzz, and are slowed for a bit.
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Aethaeryn
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Aethaeryn »

gorgolok wrote:Psilocybin.
Psilocybin is present in hundreds of species of fungi [...] The effects of psilocybin are highly variable [...] Initially the subject may begin to feel somewhat disoriented, lethargic...

So the groves are full of magic shrooms, that give off clouds of spores full of psilocybin. As undead units lack the receptors to start tripping, they can just move through, but other units get a slight buzz, and are slowed for a bit.
That's a good explanation.
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Rigor
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by Rigor »

they lack the receptors :D haha biotech speaking - there is no signalling at all in skeletons, they r controled by a once great mage who wanted to save mankind but ended up immortalizing bone marrow cells instead of conservating the whole species, therefore they could not keep their flesh through all these years.

the name Psilocybin is great too !

im glad u all agree that this is the reason why bats have a hard time flying through mushroom hexes.
multilis
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Re: Bats: Flying Wonders?

Post by multilis »

"Goblin spam at high upkeep levels also makes much more sense than Bat spam, since Goblins are actually a quite capable combat unit."

Every unit has it's unique usefulness.

The guy with bats may also have skels and walking corpses, so goblins *might* not be so useful as spam, as well ghoul is nastier to units with few hp to begin with.

Beyond village stealing/scouting:

A good usage of ghouls can leave enemy with almost dead units in back that bats finish off.
Bats can sometimes block throne of enemy king.

Personally, on Isar's cross I more often use bats than ghosts to take the water village, bat later runs away and waits for other villages to steal or weak units to finish off. If enemy takes my water village, I try to have good retaliation to kill fish and take it right back with bat, corpse, etc. (Eg: Skels to kill merman fish and adepts for naga fish)
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