Blitzkrieg! (the value of speed in Wesnoth)

[Rigor]

Unfortunately nobody will ever be able to see this cruicial moment u r talking about in the details (http://ladder.subversiva.org/gamedetail ... %3A29%3A14) because u didnt attach a savegame and its obviously a game w/o obs because its not even online on the RP server.

no he didnt crack it, hes playing again after exactely 14 days, but i remember he was 10th on the ladder some time ago and i was diabolically overjoyed because i tossed him down for 14 points and the game itself was real fun

and now comes the fun part for you: it was actually another blitz game and he was in heavy disadvantage SO EARLY that he stood no chance from the beginning. here the conclusio: http://ladder.subversiva.org/gamedetail ... %3A40%3A19

[silent]

oh...well it was observable, but probably better I don't bring it up again, just wondered.

anyways back on topic, had a look at replay, that was well played, just a shame about all those saurians/clasher reducing the cavalry heaviness of the blitz, but great nonetheless.

(I just like the cavalry heavy style for preference, but it doesn't always work)

[Just_end_turn]

Ok, this game doesn't really show a nice idea of Blietzkrieg, a very nice use of any kind of unit or a blietzkrieg against a good opponent.

It's a turn 8 win on David Hodorism.

I just made David Hodorism because as the guy enterred in my game he spammed stupid messages, got dwarves randomly

So it's for the pleasure of bashing guys that insult the game, the players and are noobs.

[ Look at the chatbox fore more details ]

[Dunno]

I just did an awesome bat&ghost rush as undead. I defeated one player in 4-5 turns. I'd really like to post a replay but others left and we had to abort game. Damn you leavers! Just wanna say that I think undead are best for "blitzkrieg". Their fast units have drain, ghost have ranged attack and they fly so they can hide in swamp or somewhere else.

[Caphriel]

The ghost is expensive and can be fragile, the bat is very fragile, neither deals much damage, and the rest of the undead units are very slow, except for the adept. The problem with a bat and ghost rush is that if your opponent sticks a reasonably good defensive unit on each exposed village, you're not going to accomplish much.

[Dunno]

The ghost is expensive and can be fragile, the bat is very fragile, neither deals much damage, and the rest of the undead units are very slow, except for the adept. The problem with a bat and ghost rush is that if your opponent sticks a reasonably good defensive unit on each exposed village, you're not going to accomplish much.

Yes, I know, this is very risky. I failed once and I was left with zombies. And of course, there are no "ideal" units in Wensoth, every faction is balanced (at least in default), but If I had to pick the best faction for fast rush it'd be undead.

[Sorrow]

Orc is pretty much the hands down rushing champions as p1. Best combination of speed/power for that first night.

[Caphriel]

I would probably pick the Undead as the worst rushing faction because they can't bring any real threat to bear early. Northerners are best, Knalgans are pretty good, and Drakes can manage a first-night attack, but it's risky, because it requires recruiting many Saurians. Loyalists can't rush, exactly, but they have a very strong push on the first day. Rebels can sometimes push the first night (against a drake-heavy Drake player or against a Loyalist player) or the first day (against Undead/Northerners/certain Knalgan styles.) Undead, on the other hand, almost always have to wait until the second night to make a serious attack. It's not just their slowness, but the fact that they need enough tanks to screen their dark adepts, too. What is your justification for claiming that the Undead are the best faction for rushing?

[fog_of_gold]

You have to look on the map size. If it's a small map, the slowlyness of the undeads won't be too bad.

About the best rush faction should be undead, I think he thinks of the very cheap, fast bats which makes you be able to catch very much villages very fast. You can do things like recruiting much bats on the first round, recruiting some other troops and after a while you can restart recruiting bats, if the enemy player kills too much bats. It isn't really important that they are so slow, if the enemy can't recruit because of having not enough income.

[Caphriel]

Maps that small aren't balanced and, in my opinion, aren't worth discussing Mainline maps generally do not allow that sort of village stealing before the enemy can get to their villages, after which bats will be unable to remove the village holder.

[fog_of_gold]

Bats aren't supposed to be villageholder-remover. Just pass throug them or go arround them, depending on position, map size and their damage. You are normally not able to defend all your villages in a circle, which is needed to protect villages against bats.

Edit:
I just want to mention it: If you have the choice between villages near your keep or farer away and you haven't got an idea which one to choose, choose always this one being farer away from your keep. It's makes you able to still catch while escaping and gives your slowly units and these scouts are going to follow some catch work.

[Sorrow]

On the mainline maps, using that sort of bat strategy against a competent opponent _will_ get you destroyed pretty much every time barring extreme luck. Same as any mass scout strategy.

[Caphriel]

coughHODORcough

But basically, what he said. In order to rush successfully, you need to be using maneuverable, combat-capable units, and because most games start at dawn, the Northerners and Knalgans with cost-effective chaotic units tend to have the best rushes.

[donkey_noob_trash1]

On the mainline maps, using that sort of bat strategy against a competent opponent _will_ get you destroyed pretty much every time barring extreme luck. Same as any mass scout strategy.

Exactly. I've tried bat spamming and ghost spamming before as UD. The only type of player I can see that working against is a total noob who doesn't understand what ZoC is and doesn't understand the concept of just sitting on a village.

As for the "same as any mass scout strategy" I agree, but I'd like to add that certain units that some people use as "scouts" can be used as mainstay units. The elvish scout is a unit I have tried to get to work as a village stealer/ mainstay unit. I think it's officially the fastest unit in the game (10 MPs for a quick scout). They just don't have the dodge and HP to hold a village, though. This is different with footpads, though, who have comparable HP levels, but 70% dodge in villages. Plus, they are cheaper. I have had reasonable success spamming footpads and just controlling the economic battle throughout the game.

Also of note, oesis has beaten some VERY good ladder players recently by just spamming tons of cavalry and utilizing their speed and resistances to ultimately defeat the other player. Would you classify the cavalry unit as a scout?

Lastly, I have been experimenting with UD blitzes recently, but only when I random into them. I don't want to give away the details because it's still highly classified information... There will be replays, though. If there's a way to blitz with UD, either me, Caphriel, or oesis will find it! Peace out!

[Sorrow]

Cav doesn't count because it belongs to loyalist and all their units are golden

I also agree with footpads in a hodorian fashion. HODOR.