Drakes vs. Undead

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TheRugi
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Joined: June 5th, 2009, 9:44 pm

Drakes vs. Undead

Post by TheRugi »

I have no idea what to do against undead when I'm playing drakes. I tried following the guide, making lots of melee units (clashers, skirmishers). Since the guy I play against usually masses adepts, each of my units usually die in 2-3 cold hits, especially at night. Magical accuracy on top of that. It takes me probably 3 or 4 units to take one adept out. I used to have a replay where I even outnumbered his adepts and I still lost. That may have been due to poor luck, or because I pressed the attack both during the day and at night, or a combination of that, but still.

Anything I can do as drake against an army of adepts?

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JW
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Re: Drakes vs. Undead

Post by JW »

TheRugi wrote:I have no idea what to do against undead when I'm playing drakes. I tried following the guide, making lots of melee units (clashers, skirmishers). Since the guy I play against usually masses adepts, each of my units usually die in 2-3 cold hits, especially at night. Magical accuracy on top of that. It takes me probably 3 or 4 units to take one adept out. I used to have a replay where I even outnumbered his adepts and I still lost. That may have been due to poor luck, or because I pressed the attack both during the day and at night, or a combination of that, but still.

Anything I can do as drake against an army of adepts?
Try more Drake Fighters. They're mobility will help stay away at night and catch them at day. They don't do as much damage as Clashers, but they're mobility makes them better against pure adepts. At least 9-3 in day against 0-0, and then 4-3 retal against 12-2 (is that right?). You'll essentially be getting 13-3 (39) damage against 12-2 (24), and your units have more hp. Try to only fight at day if possible, or dawn. Do not fight at dusk - use that to retreat.

silent
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Re: Drakes vs. Undead

Post by silent »

TheRugi wrote:I have no idea what to do against undead when I'm playing drakes. I tried following the guide, making lots of melee units (clashers, skirmishers). Since the guy I play against usually masses adepts, each of my units usually die in 2-3 cold hits, especially at night. Magical accuracy on top of that. It takes me probably 3 or 4 units to take one adept out. I used to have a replay where I even outnumbered his adepts and I still lost. That may have been due to poor luck, or because I pressed the attack both during the day and at night, or a combination of that, but still.

Anything I can do as drake against an army of adepts?
Attacking at night is always a bad option in this case, unless you're trying to bait them out so you can attack at dawn/day.

You should also recruit a few burners, since there will be some skeleton archers/ghosts that require burners to get rid of them.

When advancing at dawn/day, trying keeping your units in a line so that it's only possible to be attacked from 2 sides. This isn't always possible, but since most drake units require four adept cold attacks before going down at day, this means all 4 attacks must hit in order for a drake to go down, which makes it a lot less likely it'll be killed, while in turn, exposing the adept from 2 sides, which is normally enough to bring it down.

One last option, and I haven't tried this, it's just an idea, could be, if say you were going second, would be at second watch, to have 2 saurian skirmishers sneak round the line of advancing adepts, and kill one of them (hopefully). This means at dawn, the undead player has to retreat his army around the saurians (probably not practical), or have at least 2 stay behind to finish them off, possibly more if the saurian in resilient, leaving 2 very exposed adepts at dawn for you, who'd probably die from your drakes. (If going first, do this with the skirmishers at dawn)

A replay is probably needed, for further advice.

csparrow
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Re: Drakes vs. Undead

Post by csparrow »

use saurian units skirmishers to counter dark adepts and use burners kill skeletons, ghost, and ghouls.
gliders do a fair job at killing skeleton archers
as for clashers against undead they aren't worth 17 gold their attacks are only useful against adepts and skirmishers are better for that
fighters are good, but they aren't that effective against skeletons but other wise okay
It is from their foes, not friends that cities learn the lesson of building high walls - Aristophanes

shodan
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Re: Drakes vs. Undead

Post by shodan »

Undead vs Drakes always seems to be the most one-sided fight.

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singalen
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Re: Drakes vs. Undead

Post by singalen »

Let me stress it.
Be VERY careful about retreating at night an exposing your units at night. Start retreating at the dusk.
This matchup is deadly for both sides, wins the one who becomes more careless.

If they expose adepts at dawn, you can catch up and slaughter them.
And yes, a single skirmisher in the night can be very useful, even if exchanged 1-1: it will distract DAs from your lawful units, and slow opponent down so that you can catch up in the morning.
Don't recruit a skirmisher in the first recruit, wait till DAs approach - it won't be too useful before that.

Oh yes, attach the replay - it will be way easier to advice something.

Velensk
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Re: Drakes vs. Undead

Post by Velensk »

In terms of strait killing power the undead have the drakes dead. However at day the drakes have an advantage over the undead. Thus, this match is mostly about the drakes attempting to use their superior mobility to fight at day but not night, and the undead trying to force a fight/capture villages despite their lessor mobility.
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IB
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Re: Drakes vs. Undead

Post by IB »

shodan wrote:Undead vs Drakes always seems to be the most one-sided fight.
True, Undead almost always lose.

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Doc Paterson
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Re: Drakes vs. Undead

Post by Doc Paterson »

IB wrote:
shodan wrote:Undead vs Drakes always seems to be the most one-sided fight.
True, Undead almost always lose.
:D
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csparrow
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Re: Drakes vs. Undead

Post by csparrow »

Doc Paterson wrote:
IB wrote: True, Undead almost always lose.
:D
not entirely true in a fight against northerners undead rule!!! :)
It is from their foes, not friends that cities learn the lesson of building high walls - Aristophanes

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Wurmish
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Re: Drakes vs. Undead

Post by Wurmish »

csparrow wrote:not entirely true in a fight against northerners undead rule!!! :)
Pretty sure that the undead typically losing is in the match up Undead vs. Drakes. Not any other faction as far as I'm reading.
Currently quietly developing a small faction as part of my master plan to develop an entire era independently. Art is the only concerning point for me.

Caphriel
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Re: Drakes vs. Undead

Post by Caphriel »

I'm not sure where the Northies show up in a Drakes vs. Undead matchup. Maybe they are substituted in as pinch hitters?

I'd actually like to ask the other side of the original question: What can the undead do against a drake player who won't meet them in combat anytime but the day? Dark adepts do okay damage, but the only thing I've ever seen reasonably effective is massive amounts of WC cannon fodder to cover the DAs after they nuke a couple of drakes. I can't think of many times I've seen the undead beat the drakes, and most of those were because the drakes tried to stick it out too long instead of running away.

shodan
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Re: Drakes vs. Undead

Post by shodan »

on a small map like isar's cross where the drakes don't have far to retreat to undead can rape over and over

csparrow
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Re: Drakes vs. Undead

Post by csparrow »

shodan wrote:on a small map like isar's cross where the drakes don't have far to retreat to undead can rape over and over
that's disturbing :shock: but true
It is from their foes, not friends that cities learn the lesson of building high walls - Aristophanes

ElvenKing
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Re: Drakes vs. Undead

Post by ElvenKing »

csparrow wrote:
shodan wrote:on a small map like isar's cross where the drakes don't have far to retreat to undead can rape over and over
that's disturbing :shock: but true
Actually, that is not always true. On classic Isar's Cross(I don't know what the new one is like), Drakes can actually do very well against Undead, providing that the starting time of the game is on default(dawn). The drakes can rush the Undead on the first day, ensuring that they stay pinned in their little stating area, then retreat back out range and wait the night out. Such a rush works better as player 3 or 4, as your opponent's outermost main village(i.e. not the water village) can reached on the second turn of the game.
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