Fearless

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AThousandYoung
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Joined: February 3rd, 2007, 2:54 am

Fearless

Post by AThousandYoung »

Can Neutral units get Fearless? It's clearly useless for them.

How come none of my new recruits seem to have this trait? Only one of my three Loyal Iron Maulers has it (RoW). It's one of my favorite Traits. It allows Lawful units to fight adequately underground and to be more effective meat shields against Chaotic night attacks.
Joram
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Re: Fearless

Post by Joram »

I believe that only certain unit types can get it, such as: Walking Corpses (automatic), Trolls, and Heavy Infantry.

I do not know of any other units that can get it.

It works similar to the trait "Healthy". Only Dwarves can get Healthy.
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TheMasterOfBattle
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Re: Fearless

Post by TheMasterOfBattle »

Indeed those units and also the ghoul gets fearless. ;)

If you wanted to, you could edit a units stats so it could get such a trait, but that would be a rather pointless thing to do. ;)
The_Reaver
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Re: Fearless

Post by The_Reaver »

It kinda doesn't make sense to have this trait anyway. Why not just fearless units neutral?
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Turuk
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Re: Fearless

Post by Turuk »

The_Reaver wrote:Why not just fearless units neutral?
The whole point of this trait is making a unit fight favorably at a TOD it normally finds unfavorable, but it still retains the bonus of its favored TOD. Making it neutral would remove the favorable bonus.
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The_Reaver
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Re: Fearless

Post by The_Reaver »

Ah, ok. I was under the impression that, because the in-game Fearless description said that "Aversion to light and darkness holds no sway over these brave individuals," it meant that it had no effect at all. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Turuk
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Re: Fearless

Post by Turuk »

No, I understand, it's not the most intuitive description, but it's supposed to imply that they have no TOD penalty due to being so wonderfully brave. ;)
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A-Red
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Re: Fearless

Post by A-Red »

Turuk wrote:The whole point of this trait is making a unit fight favorably at a TOD it normally finds unfavorable, but it still retains the bonus of its favored TOD. Making it neutral would remove the favorable bonus.
On the other hand, this would make perfect sense for mindless units like the Walking Corpse and Ghoul. Seems slightly odd for them to get any bonus at all.
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Turuk
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Re: Fearless

Post by Turuk »

A-Red wrote:On the other hand, this would make perfect sense for mindless units like the Walking Corpse and Ghoul. Seems slightly odd for them to get any bonus at all.
Possibly, but you don't feel that such units are more naturally creatures of the night?
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Joram
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Re: Fearless

Post by Joram »

The bonus that they get at night could represent the fact that their opponents are more likely to be intimidated/afraid of them; resulting in them being more dangerous at night.
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Velensk
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Re: Fearless

Post by Velensk »

I've always thought of chaotic/lawful in these terms: some units benefit more from being organized themselves(things like phalanxes of spearmen, mages, and apparently drakes), and some benefit more from their enemies being disorganized (thieves, orcs, undead), and of course those who do not think either is more advatagous(elves/dwarves). Fearless for lawful units means that you don't suffer from being disorganized a Fearless for chaotic means that even if your enemy is there and ready to face you, you don't back down.

It dosn't explain everything (such as lawful vs lawful ect. or why woses/mermen would be lawful) but it's the way I prefer to think about it.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."
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Araja
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Re: Fearless

Post by Araja »

I myself aren't too fond of the way the TOD names work out, as Lawful and Chaotic are how creatures work socially...
Especially since the "evil" races are all chaotic; criminals/orcs/goblins/trolls/undead, it seems to have turned into a Good Vs Evil thing.
Like in one add-on, these dark armored humans who were Chaotic, and I was just thinking; "why are there so many people who think if it's evil it must be Chaotic?"
Just because your "evil" doesn't mean you suddenly become afraid of sunlight...Vampire Syndrome?
Velensk
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Re: Fearless

Post by Velensk »

It appears to be a good vs evil thing on the outside. However as is shown in the campaigns, not all lawful people/factions are good, and not all chaotic people/factions are evil. Your primary enemy in HTTT is the loyalists who are lawful to your neutral. And again in SotBE although the main character isn't the nicest of people, he is not nearly as evil as the human leader.

If you prefer to look at it the way I described it's more about combat style than morality. A horde of frenzied orcs would probably fair much better against a bunch of human spearmen stumbling around in the hills at night than they would against a well formed formation in the day. Thieves rely on their enemy not being able to see well to get close. Undead don't have any more problems with vision in the dark than they do at day, but their enemies do. Dark adepts work some kind of spell that deals cold damage, it makes sense that this would be more effective at night. I don't know why the chaos factions warriors fight better at night, but like I said it doesn't explain everything, but it does give a baseline to work from. I don't think that most chaotic units are afraid of sunlight. Though, if in the wesnoth mythos sunlight turns trolls to stone I can see why fearless would be an apt name (though this does not appear to be the case)
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."
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