Necromancer vs Lich

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Edguy_Forever
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Re: Necromancer vs Lich

Post by Edguy_Forever »

WOW...

That would be a GOOD I dea, sending Ulfserkers against a person with drain...
Yes, See...there in lies the joke... man... sarcasm is dead :(
catwhowalksbyhimself
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Re: Necromancer vs Lich

Post by catwhowalksbyhimself »

That would be a GOOD I dea, sending Ulfserkers against a person with drain... :roll:
Which is why it takes 37 of them of course.

Yep, no matter how obvious a joke might be on the internet, someone always comes along to spoil it by taking it seriously, thus forcing other people to explain the joke, thus ruining it for everyone.

Well, at least I though it was funny. Until I had to explain it.
Mabuse
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Re: Necromancer vs Lich

Post by Mabuse »

Taimat wrote:Silver mages do the job well too, since they have that great arcane defence.
nope ;)

silver mages have basic arcane resist that most loyalists have

(but silver has great cold resistance ;))
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Caphriel
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Re: Necromancer vs Lich

Post by Caphriel »

The White Mage and Mage of Light are the chaps with the high arcane resist (40/60 respectively), making them a tough opponent for a Lich at any time of day.
Last edited by Caphriel on August 18th, 2011, 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Taimat
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Re: Necromancer vs Lich

Post by Taimat »

Dunno why I thought Silver mages had the arcane resist.

On a completely off topic and unrelated note, playing the AI and not recruiting anything but ulfserkers is fun.
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thespaceinvader
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Re: Necromancer vs Lich

Post by thespaceinvader »

White mages do, as it happens =)
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AThousandYoung
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Re: Necromancer vs Lich

Post by AThousandYoung »

Caphriel wrote:The White Mage and Mage of Light are the chaps with the high arcane resist (40/60 respectively), making them a though opponent for a Lich at any time of day.
Don't Lichs also have a cold attack?
Joram
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Re: Necromancer vs Lich

Post by Joram »

The Liches most powerful ranged attack is cold. He also has a weaker Arcane attack (iirc).

Therefore, the Silver Mages cold resistance is more beneficial than that Mage of Lights arcane resistance.
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Caphriel
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Re: Necromancer vs Lich

Post by Caphriel »

Even at night, the mage of light will deal more damage to the lich than the lich will deal to the mage: 17-3 vs 12-3. During the other hours, it's 21-3 vs 9-3. Illuminate is important. The arcane resistance is relevant because the lich has an 8-3 arcane drain attack, which he would us in melee against the silver mage. Against the mage of light, at night, melee is 8-3 vs 3-3 drain.

During the day, the silver mage's melee is 8-2 vs 5-3 drain. Magic is 11-4 vs 5-3.
Twilight, 8-2 vs 6-3 drain, and 11-4 vs 7-3.
Night, 8-2 vs 8-3 drain, and 11-4 vs 9-3.

At night, the lich deals 3 points more per hit to the mage of light than to the silver mage, and averages 35.7 damage from the MoL vs 30.8 from the SM.
During the day, the MoL averages 44.1 damage with a 1/3 chance to kill outright. The silver mage averages 30.8 again. The lich deals 4 points more per attack to the MoL.
Twilight, everything is the same as day, except the lich only deals 2 points more to the MoL.
Additionally, the lich can use his drain attack effectively against the SM, especially at night.

Overall, the SM deals less damage, significantly less during the day, but takes less damage on the counter-attacks. However, he will be attacked melee by the lich, especially at night. I stand by my choice of the MoL, but I certainly can understand why you might prefer a silver mage.
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Jetrel
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Re: Necromancer vs Lich

Post by Jetrel »

Necromancers lack the nice resistances of the lich, but also lack the not-nice vulnerabilities. Liches can be really screwed if your enemy has specific units to take advantage of those vulnerabilities.

Plague, when you succeed with it, gives you a free unit; it's like having another few strikes with the necromancer's melee attack, for each WC. It doesn't seem like much, but zombies are inherently like that. Sometimes that extra zombie is all it takes. Perhaps more important than a zombie's attack, is that it's an obstruction. A zombie in a tile next to the necromancer is a tile the opponent can't attack from. Having one less enemy next to a necromancer can save his butt, especially if he's on a village.

(admittedly, if you have enemies next to either of these units, you're generally [censored] anyways, because it's usually the multiplayer endgame and you have no other troops. We're assuming for the sake of argument that this isn't the case and that for whatever reason, such as campaigns or rumble, your leader is actually engaging in normal front-line combat, rather than getting besieged in your castle.)
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AThousandYoung
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Re: Necromancer vs Lich

Post by AThousandYoung »

Jetryl, I love your sig. It's a nice modification of the Hitchhiker's Guide line. I'd never seen it before.
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ferrikpm
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Re: Necromancer vs Lich

Post by ferrikpm »

necromancers create cannon fodder. as long as they can kill something they have units near them at all times.
ferrikpm,also lire. lire say elves are just better than everyone else. i shoot blind to avoid sights distractions.
csparrow
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Re: Necromancer vs Lich

Post by csparrow »

plague is one of the most effective weapons in the game because if you are like me and make plenty of zombies then that either 8 gold not spent or 1 more zombie for your ranks and that can be very useful. so even if you only plague 5 units that is 2 more ghosts or a wall of walking dead dudes. :D

so necromancers are good :)
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Araja
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Re: Necromancer vs Lich

Post by Araja »

OK, everyone has said they're individual advantages and all of my views have already been expressed, but what I can point out is the simple fact I discovered during a User Game of mine:

In a Lich Vs Necromancer duel, the Necromancer will generally crush the Lich. :wink:
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Skrim
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Re: Necromancer vs Lich

Post by Skrim »

Caphriel wrote:Even at night, the mage of light will deal more damage to the lich than the lich will deal to the mage: 17-3 vs 12-3. During the other hours, it's 21-3 vs 9-3. Illuminate is important. The arcane resistance is relevant because the lich has an 8-3 arcane drain attack, which he would us in melee against the silver mage. Against the mage of light, at night, melee is 8-3 vs 3-3 drain.

During the day, the silver mage's melee is 8-2 vs 5-3 drain. Magic is 11-4 vs 5-3.
Twilight, 8-2 vs 6-3 drain, and 11-4 vs 7-3.
Night, 8-2 vs 8-3 drain, and 11-4 vs 9-3.

At night, the lich deals 3 points more per hit to the mage of light than to the silver mage, and averages 35.7 damage from the MoL vs 30.8 from the SM.
During the day, the MoL averages 44.1 damage with a 1/3 chance to kill outright. The silver mage averages 30.8 again. The lich deals 4 points more per attack to the MoL.
Twilight, everything is the same as day, except the lich only deals 2 points more to the MoL.
Additionally, the lich can use his drain attack effectively against the SM, especially at night.

Overall, the SM deals less damage, significantly less during the day, but takes less damage on the counter-attacks. However, he will be attacked melee by the lich, especially at night. I stand by my choice of the MoL, but I certainly can understand why you might prefer a silver mage.
The Mage of Light may be a better counter to the Lich, but the Silver Mage is definitely better against the Necromancer. The Necromancer doesn't have the Arcane and Impact weaknesses(instead it has 20% Arcane resistance) of the Lich, and doesn't have a Drain staff to melee the Silver Mage with.
While the Mage of Light may be a healer & curer, and a killer of all Undead beings, the Silver Mage is just an all-out teleporting magical duelist. The not-mentioned Arch Mage is just a general purpose ranged attacker. :eng:

As for the Necromancer vs Lich debate, I'd choose the Necromancer. It's tougher, has less weaknesses, and gives you free zombies.

Of course, if I were playing an all-Skeleton BURS in AoH, I'd use a Lich for my leader.
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