If there's two tiles...for example a Village and Water

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Menrod
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Re: If there's two tiles...for example a Village and Water

Post by Menrod » April 25th, 2009, 4:55 pm

1. What is the "WINR" principle? I even Googled it, and the first hit was Kamamura's post on this forum, and none of the other hits on the first page seemed relevant.

2. If you think of a ford as ankle deep water with a level bottom, then the merman's easy movement seems questionable.

But it could also be a place where the water is a few feet deep, but stepping stones, boulders, & fallen logs, sandbars, etc., are readily available.

Since each tile represents an area, not a specific point, it could be a little of both, or a variety of things in between.
Thus, would explain why each unit is able to choose to use their best defense (take cover in the way they are most comfortable with).

Also mermen would be better than most at maneuvering between boulders in rapids, or at taking cover in such conditions.

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thespaceinvader
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Re: If there's two tiles...for example a Village and Water

Post by thespaceinvader » April 25th, 2009, 5:59 pm

Wesnoth_Acronyms

WINR: Wesnoth Is Not Realistic. Whenever there's a choice between realism and simplicity of gameplay, the latter will almost certainly win out.
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ancestral
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Re: If there's two tiles...for example a Village and Water

Post by ancestral » April 25th, 2009, 9:39 pm

thespaceinvader wrote:Wesnoth_Acronyms

WINR: Wesnoth Is Not Realistic. Whenever there's a choice between realism and simplicity of gameplay, the latter will almost certainly win out.
Whatever. My older sister can totally cast fireballs. She hits about 70% of the time, too.



But seriously, I agree, simplicity is most important.
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Caphriel
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Re: If there's two tiles...for example a Village and Water

Post by Caphriel » April 26th, 2009, 2:22 am

Simplicity, is, in fact, a primary design principle of Wesnoth :eng:

PhilipN
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Re: If there's two tiles...for example a Village and Water

Post by PhilipN » May 6th, 2009, 12:17 am

Just when I thought I had most of the Wesnoth "double tiles" (such as bridge, snowy forest, etc.) figured out (with much help from the explanations available in the "Help" window when you expand the "Terrain" section), 1.6 came out with forested hills (see the first level of the brand-spankin'-new Legend of Wesmere campaign for an example). This has not yet been added to the Help section's list of explanations for the various types of terrain (perhaps it could be in 1.6.2?); could someone please explain it here?

Caphriel
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Re: If there's two tiles...for example a Village and Water

Post by Caphriel » May 6th, 2009, 4:14 am

Some testing seems to indicate that it's worst move/best defense. Elves and orcs require two MP to move into it, elves get forest defense values, and dwarves get hill defense values.

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Sharur
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Re: If there's two tiles...for example a Village and Water

Post by Sharur » May 11th, 2009, 5:49 am

They should all be worst move/best defense except river fords. Generally, slow movement over terrain is due to "stuff" in the way, and said "stuff" is still present in the cases of double terrain hexes. Similarly, higher defense is usually due to "stuff" in the way providing cover, and again, said "stuff" is still present in these cases.

River fords/bridges need to be an exception, because the whole point with them is that they mitigate the "stuff" that gets in the way as it applies to movement. I don't think this is the case for any other type of double terrain hex.

This wouldn't be perfect- for the forest hills example, a horseman, which actually has worse defense due to "stuff" in the way, would not be penalized for being in the woods. But I think it would be good enough, and I suppose an additional exception could be made for unit movement types that (atypically) have worse defense when there's "stuff" in the way (though I can't really think of any examples other than horsemen/cavalrymen). In their case, it could be worst move/worst defense.

Alternatively (and this would be less simple, but helpful at least), all of the double terrain hex types could be listed in the unit descriptions, and could be individually customized on a unit by unit basis to do exactly what they ought to, the same way regular terrain is (I'm guessing this would just involve making the double terrain hexes their own terrain types in the same way single terrain hexes are).

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