Drakes vs. Undead - effective counter for Dark Adept spam?

[chaoticwanderer]

In a Drakes vs undead map those dark adepts really rip up your your units. Is there any reliable method to taking out adepts, especially groups of them?

[Thanatos]

Hmm, what I fear most in a game vs. Drakes are melee units charging my adepts.
So, melee?

I guess there are also some hints in the How to play Drakes vs. Undead article.

[TheMasterOfBattle]

okay, well this is assuming that the oppenent is recruiting almost exclusively Dark Adepts. In this case, a mix of burners and fighters, and maybe a couple clashers and one or two skirmishers. Do not let your drakes be anywhere near a DA at night as DAs eat drakes alive. You will want to keep your burners in front so that if the DAs attack, then they will suffer heavy damage in retaliation. If you are player 1, hold your ground for the most part at dawn and advance at morning. If you are player 2, hold your ground at night and start advancing at dawn. Make sure if you are attacking a DA that you can kill it.

Yes, I also recommend reading the article Turuk posted.

[anakayub]

Dark adepts have 5 base MP, drake fighters 6.

Just wait outside of range and attack at dawn/morning. Have a few burners (skele's) and skirmishers (ZOC) as necessary.

[Doc Paterson]

TMOB: I'd never recommend defending with a burner with the idea of making an adept take some minor (usually about 10) retaliation damage. Adepts are not going to hesitate to attack and destroy any burner in their range during night. In this scenario, where you're dealing with only adepts, I think you should forget burners entirely, and forget skirmishers entirely, as both have something to do with you being in range of them at night. Fighter, fighters, fighters.

Anakayub: You know this of course, but it should be pointed out for other readers that an average of 2/3rds of adepts are quick, so the movement ratio to fighters (on flat) is more like 5.66 (adepts) to 6.5 (fighters). I'd also reiterate that recruiting more saurians than what you started with is probably asking for trouble, unless of course, you're playing it very very cautiously, and want to aim for a long game (to de-emphasize the overall influence of the saurian's low-damage-per-hex ratio). I don't think that's ever something to aim for though, because undead have the overall higher average damage per hex, and on a crowded, late-game map, that would really give them the edge. You could probably make arguments for either side here, but I think that in general, you'll have the most success hitting them exclusively at day, and with the highest damage per hex units possible.

[anakayub]

Anakayub: You know this of course, but it should be pointed out for other readers that an average of 2/3rds of adepts are quick, so the movement ratio to fighters (on flat) is more like 5.66 (adepts) to 6.5 (fighters). I'd also reiterate that recruiting more saurians than what you started with is probably asking for trouble, unless of course, you're playing it very very cautiously, and want to aim for a long game (to de-emphasize the overall influence of the saurian's low-damage-per-hex ratio). I don't think that's ever something to aim for though, because undead have the overall higher average damage per hex, and on a crowded, late-game map, that would really give them the edge. You could probably make arguments for either side here, but I think that in general, you'll have the most success hitting them exclusively at day, and with the highest damage per hex units possible.

Definitely true. It's here that terrain mastery becomes useful to try to negate the quick adepts. And I think the saurian aspect is the exception than the rule too. When the game is still open, recruiting more saurians than the initial recruit is a waste, especially on a map like Weldyn Channel. It may be useful sometimes on less mobile maps, like Caves of the Basilisk, when zoc is a slightly more concern with medium number of units on both sides. But in this case I might prefer clashers instead. Argue x3!

[Doc Paterson]

It may be useful sometimes on less mobile maps, like Caves of the Basilisk, when zoc is a slightly more concern with medium number of units on both sides. But in this case I might prefer clashers instead. Argue x3!

Well I agree! So !!!

[chaoticwanderer]

I figured as much. It seems that matches where there are masses of Dark Adepts, inevitably turn into bloodbaths on both sides.

However I disagree with strategy article in some regards. It says Gliders aren't that useful, but I find them an excellent counter to the skeletons, having a both a melee and ranged attack that they are weak too and having great mobility.

[Thanatos]

Yes, I also recommend reading the article Turuk posted.

Pardon? Do you mean JW or me?
Just trying to avoid misunderstandings here.

[Turuk]

I think he meant JW, but I'm flattered that people automatically think of me.

In all seriousness, JW put a lot of work into those and even though they a bit old, I think they are still vastly overlooked by players who need advice in playing. They give plenty of tips on how to get used to each faction.

How to Play Series

[TheGreatRings]

Faced with such a situation, I would first laugh at the other guy for building such a one dimensional army with absolutely zero melee capabillity, then probably throw as many clashers out as possible. Though I can see the value of burners to inflict damage on attacking adepts. Also, speaking for myself, I would have healers, since the main reason I'd ever play drakes is for the saurian auger (fast level one healers with a magical attack are sweet ).

[Velensk]

Augers against all adpets?

The problem with that, is that your attack would be inefficent against your foes, and your healing would not come fast enough to save anyone. You could indeed heal a drake for 4 hp a turn. However any attack coming at them is likely to be for 15 or 19 damage a hit.

[TheGreatRings]

Augers against all adpets?

The problem with that, is that your attack would be inefficent against your foes, and your healing would not come fast enough to save anyone. You could indeed heal a drake for 4 hp a turn. However any attack coming at them is likely to be for 15 or 19 damage a hit.

Yes, but if you managed to retreat a wounded drake, it would heal faster. Not saying I'd make them the core of my army, either. Most likely I'd have one, or two at most. The core of my army against an all-adept enemy would probably be clashers, like I said.

[JW]

Against an all Adept army an all Fighter army is best. Stay 1 hex out of range at night *GIVE UP VILLAGES* and then counter as day comes. Fighters deal base 9-3 at day to defenseless Adepts while Adepts return 12-2 in counter with a 4-3 retal from the Fighters. 13-3 v 12-2 for 17g v 16g. You win.

A recruit of an Augr against Undead is perhaps a bigger waste than a Mage against Drakes.

[TL]

A recruit of an Augr against Undead is perhaps a bigger waste than a Mage against Drakes.

This is true, but only because mages are damn useful against drakes (well, for loyalists that have to worry about saurians, anyhow; rebels, maybe not so much). A ghoul tanking in village can be troublesome for drakes unless they get really lucky; having an augur around to cancel poison can be a great help.

That said, against adepts per se augurs are indeed amazingly useless.