Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Share and discuss strategies for playing the game, and get help and tips from other players.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

englandschorsch
Posts: 25
Joined: August 30th, 2008, 9:49 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Post by englandschorsch » September 2nd, 2008, 1:13 pm

Hi there,

I've been playing for a couple of days now, testing all the factions on the map "The Freelands" (without fog of war). I really like the Drakes and manage to beat a computer opponent fairly easily. Except when the computer is playing Northerners.

He just keeps flooding me with a never ending stream of Grunts, Wolf Riders and Archers...
Scouting and stealing villages doesn't work at all because he just intercepts my scouts (Gliders/Fighters) with Wolf Riders and/or archers.

I've never even won ones. And that's even worse on the map "Hornshark Island".

Now, I've read many strategy posts in this forum and that's fine. However I'd really appreciate a replay from some experts playing Draks against Northerners on one of those two maps. I guess it's a quick and easy thing for you guys to kill a computer opponent on such a small map. ;-)

I'd really appreciate that. I just want to observe and learn.

Thanks a lot guys,
Schorsch
Let Epsilon be greater than zero.

PingPangQui
Posts: 267
Joined: July 18th, 2006, 11:52 am

Re: Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Post by PingPangQui » September 2nd, 2008, 1:59 pm

here you are. Alternatively you could also post a replay, thus others can watch it and tell you what you have done wrong.
Attachments
2S_–_Die_Insel_der_Stachelhaie_Spielverlauf.gz
(16.5 KiB) Downloaded 268 times
The Clan Antagonist.

"Larry the Cow was a bit frustrated at the current state of Linux distributions (...) until he tried Gentoo Linux" - Free Software for free people.

englandschorsch
Posts: 25
Joined: August 30th, 2008, 9:49 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Post by englandschorsch » September 2nd, 2008, 3:11 pm

Thanks a lot. That looks easy. ^^

I wonder what I'm doing wrong. I'll follow your advice, play a couple of games more and then post a replay. If someone wants to post a Freelands-Replay, though, feel free. That's the map I know best and I'm happy about any replay. The more good ones I see, the better I might get. ^^

Danke nochmal PingPang. :D

Cheers,
Schorsch
Let Epsilon be greater than zero.

Jozrael
Posts: 1034
Joined: June 2nd, 2006, 1:39 pm
Location: NJ, USA.

Re: Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Post by Jozrael » September 2nd, 2008, 5:56 pm

How about I play drakes vs your northerners on that map? I can give tips on playing northies (my fav race) too =)

IB
Posts: 330
Joined: September 28th, 2006, 11:38 am

Re: Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Post by IB » September 2nd, 2008, 9:44 pm

Did it quickly, good enough play to crush the ai, however don't play like this against a human player.
Attachments
2p_-_The_Freelands_replay.gz
(11.89 KiB) Downloaded 210 times

englandschorsch
Posts: 25
Joined: August 30th, 2008, 9:49 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Post by englandschorsch » September 2nd, 2008, 10:05 pm

IB wrote:Did it quickly, good enough play to crush the ai, however don't play like this against a human player.
Thanks a lot. :D

Why shouldn't I play like that against a human player? Any further details about that comment?

Apart from that, I noticed that both you and PingPong used quite a few Fighters. I've read in most forum posts and guides that Fighters are no good. That either Burners or Clashers or a combination of both are better.
On the other hand Fighters are cheap. So maybe I just wasted my money with those expensive Burners and Clashers.

Although I think I use my leader not often and not actively enough. I usually don't engage in battle with my leader. Maybe I should try that in some situations.

Thanks a lot so far to all of you guys. I keep trying to improve. :D
Let Epsilon be greater than zero.

Jozrael
Posts: 1034
Joined: June 2nd, 2006, 1:39 pm
Location: NJ, USA.

Re: Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Post by Jozrael » September 2nd, 2008, 10:23 pm

One of Drakes' biggest assets is their maneuverability. Fighters > Clashers in that sense in that they (for no lesser defense) are allowed far greater maneuverability with only a slight reduction in power (which is comparable to the lesser cost of their unit). However, clashers have slightly higher resistances. Sooooo, to make it easy:

Fighter Pros:
Maneuverable
Cheap
Small ranged attack

Clasher Pros:
Slightly higher resistance
Slightly higher damage

Thus, in a straightout melee brawl, a clasher is your best bet. But a fighters got the maneuverability (ranged attack doesn't hurt either) to justify only a slight decrease in cost.

You can't compare burners in the same way because they have such different roles. Suffice to say every drake unit is a necessity in a good, well-played game against most factions.

IB
Posts: 330
Joined: September 28th, 2006, 11:38 am

Re: Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Post by IB » September 2nd, 2008, 10:28 pm

englandschorsch wrote:Why shouldn't I play like that against a human player? Any further details about that comment?

Apart from that, I noticed that both you and PingPong used quite a few Fighters. I've read in most forum posts and guides that Fighters are no good. That either Burners or Clashers or a combination of both are better.
On the other hand Fighters are cheap. So maybe I just wasted my money with those expensive Burners and Clashers.
Because I didn't retreat at night, as you can see when you don't retreat at night you lose units, I lost that fighter first night. A human is much more skilled than the ai and will plan a much better attack, the ai attacks suicidally and without purpose. Fighters are good because I wasn't facing a lot of pierce.

Jozrael
Posts: 1034
Joined: June 2nd, 2006, 1:39 pm
Location: NJ, USA.

Re: Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Post by Jozrael » September 2nd, 2008, 10:38 pm

Honestly the difference in the pierce isn't that severe. 0% vs 10% is a difference of one damage point if the attack is over 5. A la an orcish archer isn't going to do any extra damage with their 5-3 piercing attack, but at night its 7-3 (fighter) instead of 6-3 (clasher). So while it does make a difference, it's not something that you'll really write home about.

Also the clasher has +4 hp, forgot about that. The fighter is 3xp easier to level.

IB
Posts: 330
Joined: September 28th, 2006, 11:38 am

Re: Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Post by IB » September 3rd, 2008, 1:45 am

The damage does add up though as your defence isn't very high.

ElvenKing
Posts: 105
Joined: February 7th, 2008, 7:02 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Post by ElvenKing » September 3rd, 2008, 5:21 am

Clashers also have 20% blade resistance, which is very handy against grunts.
"if nothing we do matters... , then all that matters is what we do."
Angel- Angel the Series

"Sore thumbs. Do they stick out? I mean, have you ever seen a thumb and gone 'wow, that baby is sore'?"
Willow Rosenberg- Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Jozrael
Posts: 1034
Joined: June 2nd, 2006, 1:39 pm
Location: NJ, USA.

Re: Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Post by Jozrael » September 3rd, 2008, 10:55 am

Clashers have 10% higher resistance on every physical damage type compared to fighters.

englandschorsch
Posts: 25
Joined: August 30th, 2008, 9:49 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Post by englandschorsch » September 3rd, 2008, 8:03 pm

IB wrote: Because I didn't retreat at night, as you can see when you don't retreat at night you lose units, I lost that fighter first night. A human is much more skilled than the ai and will plan a much better attack, the ai attacks suicidally and without purpose. Fighters are good because I wasn't facing a lot of pierce.
I just don't get this whole retreat thing. I just don't get it. I do understand the whole day cycle principal, but how do I retreat properly?

What is that supposed to mean? Shall I just run away and hand my villages over to the enemy on a silver plate? That can't be the purpose. Am I supposed to not fight at all during night time??? I mean after all attacking is the best defence, right? ;-)

If somebody could explain the idea behind retreating and how to do it properly, I'd be grateful.
Let Epsilon be greater than zero.

Yogibear
Retired Developer
Posts: 1086
Joined: September 16th, 2005, 5:44 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Post by Yogibear » September 3rd, 2008, 9:15 pm

englandschorsch wrote: I just don't get this whole retreat thing. I just don't get it. I do understand the whole day cycle principal, but how do I retreat properly?
Usually on a 1vs1 map there is some space between your villages and your opponents villages. Depending on the map and speed of your units, the distance is 1-2 turns.

The idea of retreating starts with your own attack. You are stronger during your preferred time of day, so you march forward and your opponent retreats (lets take aside the matchups where both factions are having the same preferences).

As drakes, you normally start marching at dawn. You move into the free area, your enemies retreat. First day is the critical turn. Ideally you should be able to attack the enemies villages now. Maybe your party is not complete because of some slower units and you are therefore not strong enough yet (that is what your opponent hopes for, will try to arrange). If so, you only got one turn for your attack, else it is two turns. At dusk you pull back your units.

Starting from the enemies villages, he will need at least one turn (dusk) to cross the free area, maybe two until he can start his attack. Nevertheless you might have to decide if you keep the village or let him take it for one or two turns. It usually depends on how sure you can be that the unit holding the village will survive. If the enemy got magic, chances are normally low. In that case you should leave the village open, otherwise your unit will die without having an advantage of that.

However, if you play this a little smart, it will only be one village in question and only for one or at most two turns. Remember, that 1 turn costs you a net loss of 4 gold per lost village (2 less for you and 2 more for your enemy). But 4 gold is a lot less than a lost unit.

When dawn comes, you get the village back. If the enemy is stupid enough to stay you will crush him into pieces during the day cycles.

Even if you don't want to attack it is essential to occupy the space between villages in order to delay the enemy when his preferred time comes.
Smart persons learn out of their mistakes, wise persons learn out of others mistakes!

Velensk
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 3984
Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Re: Drakes beat Northerners: Replay wanted

Post by Velensk » September 3rd, 2008, 9:17 pm

The purpose of retreating is to conserve your forces untill a situation is favorable, or to avoid a severly unfavorable conflict. Occasionaly this means letting your enemy have your villages (especilay if they are chaotic and you are lawfull and it is the first night). However the minute day is starting to come be ready to take them back. You are faster than orcs (especialy if you go heavy on fighters), and at day you can wipe the floor with pretty much any orc unit easy, even if they have good terrain all that means is that you need to get another unit or two onto them). When facing the AI you don't even have to chase them down because the AI is to stupid to run away.

Remember, villages are units later, units are units now. It is often much better to run away and lose your villages for a short while, than to try to hold them and lose you units defending them (and the village too, many times), this is especialy the case with the drakes, who are the best at chasing their enemy down, and are on average the most expensive.

EDIT: yogi beat me to it, but my advice still applies.
Last edited by Velensk on September 3rd, 2008, 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

Post Reply