Using horsemen (split from Re-balancing the horse unit)

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anakayub
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Using horsemen (split from Re-balancing the horse unit)

Post by anakayub »

Split from here --Irrevenant

Because you don't defend with horsemen.

After using horsemen/mages, a good player will always zoc it with other "cannon-fodder (in relation to the horsemen)" units like spearman/fencers. Once that occurs there is reduced exposure to kill it. Reduced retaliation makes horsemen more aggressive in value, as you can use them freely without worrying about melee retaliation, leading to greater defender loss when executed correctly. This is because melee units are then in greater danger of both mages and horsemen at day than previously.

This means potentially more/better killing options, while at the same time preserving the loyalist structure of horsemen staying behind the line. With this, there is a reduced loyalist defender ability to attempt a counterattack, including against a zoc-protected horsemen. It's not really a overpowered horsemen, but overpowered loyalists tactics in general. If it sounds confusing (I'm trying my best to sound simple, maybe someone else can help me), just think about mages having pierce resistance.

In fact, if you make such changes, I don't see the need for a mixed mage/horsemen army. An all-mage (if mages get pierce resistance) or all-horsemen shock troops will suffice, because then both types of units can just roll over both range and melee dominant troops. That is, unless if your army consists magically of drake slashers and drake wardens*. :P

*I'm just obviously over-exaggerating here, hehe.
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Re: Re-balancing the horse unit to increase survivability

Post by irrevenant »

TrashMan wrote:Oh, I have 6 Elven Scouts as meat shields and my most precious units are on hills or in a village/castle.
But they get through the defense or just ignore the meat shields and go for juicier targets...
If the enemy can just go around then you don't have a shield - it sounds like you have the fodder too far away from the units they're blocking. The cannon fodder needs to be positioned so their ZoC prevents the enemy from going past If there's multiple Knights you may need redundancy in the layout to reduce the risk of them blowing a hole in your meatshield and rushing through.

BTW, Scouts aren't great fodder - they're too expensive. Fighters are generally a better option (cheaper, better retaliation damage & better defence on villages).

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Re: Re-balancing the horse unit to increase survivability

Post by Chris NS »

Test of the Clans is a very tough scenario. Most of the terrain is open ground, and the only units you have that are good on open ground are from the horesmen line, and they'll get swamped against the overwhelming number of enemies.

My tips are:

1) If you don't have as much starting gold as you need, go back and play the last scenario again, but try to finish sooner. The early finish bonus makes a huge difference.

2) If you don't have enough high-level units to be a match on open ground (and you probably won't), recall mainly dwarves and concentrate your forces in the hills, letting the clans come to you. You will lose a few unlucky units this way, but you can hold out long enough to defeat the 25 enemy units you need.

Oh, and don't worry too much about losing level 2 units. As slight spoiler, you'll have plenty of them in the next scenario.

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Re: Re-balancing the horse unit to increase survivability

Post by thespaceinvader »

I thought you only got those units in the final scenario if you killed at least one grand knight in ToTC. Which isn't too hard - the one immediately below the starting keep is a pretty easy early kill.
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Re: Re-balancing the horse unit to increase survivability

Post by peet »

Chris NS wrote:Test of the Clans is a very tough scenario.

My tips are:

2) If you don't have enough high-level units to be a match on open ground (and you probably won't), recall mainly dwarves and concentrate your forces in the hills, letting the clans come to you. You will lose a few unlucky units this way, but you can hold out long enough to defeat the 25 enemy units you need.
I have also seen the suggestion that you recruit thieves (and maybe footpads) for this scenario. Again you put them in the hills where they will get 70% defense. Though they can often be killed by one or at the most two lance hits, the enemy won't score those hits very often.

Of course, when I did this scenario a long time back, I made sure that I had leveled a good number of Elvish Riders and Elvish Outriders before the senario started. I formed a "strike force" of maybe 5 or more of these units plus a paladin or two for healing. I sent them south and went straight for the leader - they move fast enough to evade most of the enemy units. If you attack the leader at night you have a really good chance of taking him out without casualties. The enemy Grand Knights are really vulnerable to the Elvish Rider's arrows. Once you take him out, you will be getting a bit more gold (from the villages you have taken) and can bolster your defense around the home fort while your strike force sweeps up to get the second and third leaders. I was able to get all three enemy leaders this way.

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Re: Using horsemen (split from Re-balancing the horse unit)

Post by Me1234 »

i like to use horsemen and just annihalate the enemy, espescially orcs, during the day and retreat out of range at night and let spearmen take the brunt of night retaliation. if it is loyalist against loyalist and your opponent recruits lots of horse men, get lots of spearmen or fighters to obliterate the horsemen.
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