recruit, recall, dismiss

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Pookie Pitviper
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recruit, recall, dismiss

Post by Pookie Pitviper » January 27th, 2008, 3:02 am

1. How do you decide how many troops you need for a particular scenario? (Being a bit of a coward, I tend to over-recruit.) When to recall leveled units and when to recall/recruit level 1's? When you need to bring in your level 4 heavyweights (or lightweights, in the case of Elvish Sylphs)?

2. How do you decide when it's useful/necessary to recruit cheap sacrificial units, and how many?

3. How do you decide which particular units or types of units (scout, archer, fighter, etc.) to deploy first, and in what ratios?

4. What are your standards for dismissing a unit (other than straightforward cases like the Horseman and other expensive units, those with the "loyal" trait or some other special feature, etc.)? How many XP does a unit have to have in order to be worth keeping? What other factors might determine whether or not you decide to keep a unit?

I'm interested in how the map, as well as characteristics of the units themselves, figures in decisions about recruiting/recalling. (I'm mostly referring to campaigns rather than MP.) By all means, be as detailed and as specific as you like.

TIA,
Pookie

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Post by Federalist marshal » January 27th, 2008, 3:25 am

1. Depends on how much money you have. Higher level units have a higher upkeep, although the cost of recalling them is the same for all units. In campaigns, it's generally smart to save up.
2. I don't recommend cannon fodder. It's inhumane and a waste of money. However, if you need to hold off the enemy for as long as possible and the position really is that important, then by all means go ahead.
3. Depends on situation and faction. I would recommend picking a faction you like and learning its strengths and weaknesses. In the process you will learn how to use the faction's units to their full potential.
4. Dismiss any unit that you think isn't worth the money. The amount of XP needed to keep the unit is up to your preferences. For me I prefer at least 12XP, and 8XP for intelligent units.

I'll be happy to discuss further, but right now I find your questions a bit vague.

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Post by turin » January 27th, 2008, 4:38 am

4. I never dismiss units unless the gold saved recruiting a new one would be over six or seven. Mainly because you never know when the campaign author will stop you from being able to recruit that kind of unit.
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TL
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Post by TL » January 27th, 2008, 4:52 am

Federalist marshal wrote:2. I don't recommend cannon fodder. It's inhumane and a waste of money. However, if you need to hold off the enemy for as long as possible and the position really is that important, then by all means go ahead.
I disagree. Emphasizing expendable recruits over veteran recalls saves you buckets of money on upkeep (plus a bit of extra change out of recruit vs. recall price), while judicious use of leadership enables you to get effective damage out of them on the cheap. The AI prefers picking off weak units over trying to wear down strong units, so having ample fodder around helps safeguard the experience you've invested in the tiny core of high level units you do actually recall. Having a steady stream of low level fodder to feed XP to lets you take advantage of frequent level ups (and the accompanying healing) and gives you a huge reserve of veteran troops that you're probably not going to be recalling often but which will let you utterly crush the enemy when you get to that one hard scenario where you need all of them.

(Don't mistake me here: you will need some higher level units as well to smash your way through chokepoints. But it is generally to your advantage to handle as much of the fighting as possible with recruitable fodder.)

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Re: recruit, recall, dismiss

Post by Clonkinator » January 27th, 2008, 9:25 am

Pookie Pitviper wrote:1. How do you decide how many troops you need for a particular scenario? (Being a bit of a coward, I tend to over-recruit.) When to recall leveled units and when to recall/recruit level 1's? When you need to bring in your level 4 heavyweights (or lightweights, in the case of Elvish Sylphs)?

2. How do you decide when it's useful/necessary to recruit cheap sacrificial units, and how many?

3. How do you decide which particular units or types of units (scout, archer, fighter, etc.) to deploy first, and in what ratios?

4. What are your standards for dismissing a unit (other than straightforward cases like the Horseman and other expensive units, those with the "loyal" trait or some other special feature, etc.)? How many XP does a unit have to have in order to be worth keeping? What other factors might determine whether or not you decide to keep a unit?

I'm interested in how the map, as well as characteristics of the units themselves, figures in decisions about recruiting/recalling. (I'm mostly referring to campaigns rather than MP.) By all means, be as detailed and as specific as you like.

TIA,
Pookie
1. I actually recruit much more than I recall. And if I recall something, I mainly recall lvl2s - I never recall a fully advanced unit unless I really need to (except if they have leadership). Other than that, I just guess how many units the enemy will have and try to send about equally much, maybe a little less units.

2. I don't decide it; I always just do. Having at least as much cannon fodder as you have higher level units can sometimes really save your, uhm, ass.

3. I watch the recruits of my enemy / guess what my enemy will recruit and recruit/recall counter-units myself. I also usually try to make my choice a bit balanced. That means, I won't recall only 5 elvish heroes unless I don't have anything else, but rather 1 elvish hero, 1 elvish marshal, 1 elvish ranger, 1 elvish sorceress etc...

4. I never dismiss units unless they have 0 XP and traits I don't want.

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Post by shevegen » January 28th, 2008, 3:16 pm

I agree on the fully advanced units. In general they are not so good because:
- if they die, you lose a great unit
- they cant really advance anymore
- their benefits are often not really that great anyway compared to level 2 unit, or 2 level 1 units


It actually depends a lot on the map structure as well

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Post by Clonkinator » January 28th, 2008, 4:23 pm

shevegen wrote:I agree on the fully advanced units. In general they are not so good because:
- if they die, you lose a great unit
- they cant really advance anymore
- their benefits are often not really that great anyway compared to level 2 unit, or 2 level 1 units


It actually depends a lot on the map structure as well
And they cost much more upkeep, too. Also, they eat away the XP for your weaker units.

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Post by Dodgy Tactician » January 28th, 2008, 7:16 pm

1. How do you decide how many troops you need for a particular scenario? (Being a bit of a coward, I tend to over-recruit.) When to recall leveled units and when to recall/recruit level 1's? When you need to bring in your level 4 heavyweights (or lightweights, in the case of Elvish Sylphs)?
The first time I play a campaign, I always tend to over-recruit, then analyse which units were superfluous in each particular scenario. When (generally not if) I have to go back and replay past scenarios because I've levelled the wrong units, lost my core of high level units or run out of money, I try to remember to avoid the units that were a waste and only recruit/recall the useful ones.
2. How do you decide when it's useful/necessary to recruit cheap sacrificial units, and how many?
I like to keep a "production line" of units of any specific type. I will generally make sure that of my two main damage units (one melee and one ranged), I will keep at least one Level 1 unit going all the time. If my Level 1 unit is close to advancing, then I'll recruit another one. In HttT, this would be Elvish Fighters and Elvish Archers in the early part (pre-caves) and Dwarvish Fighters and Magi in the later part. That way, I always have a fodder unit if I absolutely need one, but if I can avoid having to need one then I level it up normally (but Magi are never fodder unless it's a choice between a Mage or something more valuable like a loyal Sharpshooter).
3. How do you decide which particular units or types of units (scout, archer, fighter, etc.) to deploy first, and in what ratios?
Assuming a six hex castle, then I generally get one scout/village grabber and any loyal units first, followed by whatever is the slowest of my main force. By recruiting the slower units first, the main force is formed up quicker. If the fog and/or shroud are on though, then I'll generally get at least four scouts early on and try to get one high level scout.
4. What are your standards for dismissing a unit (other than straightforward cases like the Horseman and other expensive units, those with the "loyal" trait or some other special feature, etc.)? How many XP does a unit have to have in order to be worth keeping? What other factors might determine whether or not you decide to keep a unit?
If they have any experience, then I keep them. If I haven't played a campaign before, then I keep everything. In fact, the only reason I would dismiss a unit is if it has 0 XP, bad traits and I know from past experience that I can recruit more later on.
shevegen wrote:I agree on the fully advanced units. In general they are not so good because:
- if they die, you lose a great unit
- they cant really advance anymore
- their benefits are often not really that great anyway compared to level 2 unit, or 2 level 1 units

It actually depends a lot on the map structure as well
And they cost much more upkeep, too. Also, they eat away the XP for your weaker units.
I will generally recall top level loyal units and those with desirable abilities. Leadership, and Illuminate are obvious ones. Skirmisher/Poison is really useful in the right place if you have Outlaw Assassins (I like to use it in Test of the Clan to make enemy units back off for a while - poison an injured unit and it often leaves you alone without you having to kill it, meaning you save your kills for the Grand Knights). The Skirmisher is also useful for ZoCing enemy units away from your strike force, particularly the Bowmen.

I like to use high level units to really damage an enemy unit so that my low level units can step in to get the easy kills (essentially like having five or six Delfadors) and I find it makes life a lot easier than by having lots of Leadership units (although I do tend to use a fair amount of them too - anything for an easy life).

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Re: recruit, recall, dismiss

Post by xgi » April 27th, 2008, 7:16 pm

When I play a campaign, I like to recall units that are very close to promotion to the next level, for instance 28/34 experience (28 being the experience gained and 34 being the number needed for promotion.

When they're running around before they meet up with an enemy, they only cost one gold, but they can be used to kill an enemy unit and not only go to the next level but heal all of their damage.

Another bonus is that you can make a normally-suicidal attack with impunity.

Example: You have three level 1 units with the following experience: 18/34, 33/41, and 40/41 opposed by a level 2 near-dead (say four strength left), level 1 near-dead, and a level 3 undamaged unit.

The way I would attack is use the 18/34 against the L2 (a kill gives 16 experience and a promotion), 33/41 against the L1 (same thing, but eight experience), and the 40/41 against the L3 (any damage against the L3 will give one experience point and result in a promotion). If all goes well, you'll start with three L1 units (versus L1, L2, and L3 units) on your turn and go to three L2 (against one L3) on the opponent turn. This changes the entire combat situation, especially if your units had damage before they were promoted.

The problem you have is that if any of the attacks fails you're in a bad situation, at least for that unit, which might well end up dead.

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Re: recruit, recall, dismiss

Post by wy29 » May 1st, 2008, 8:55 pm

1. You can tell how many units the AI will bring by checking its starting gold.
With that info, you should get an idea of how many units you will need to keep on par with the AI.
If you are good with tactics, you may not need as many units.

Recalling:
I usually recall the loyal units on turn 1 and use them to grab villages first.
Then start recruiting lvl1s.
If the AI can recruit lvl2 units, then I would recall a few heavyweights just to keep on par.
I usually summon all the heavyweights for the last scenario of a campaign.

2. It's always useful to summon canon fodder.
They protect your leader and other loyal units, also wearing down the enemy before your more important units get the kill.
You need 3 units to cover 1 front.
I usually take 6 fodder units with me at the beginning, and add more when required.

3. If there is fog/shroud, deploy scouts first.
The # of scouts depend on your location in a map. If you are at a corner, you can use less.(2 is enough?)
If in the center, then probably will need more.

I recruit canon fodder units first, usually cheap fighters with high hp.
It is good to keep a balanced ratio of melee and ranged units.
If all you have are warriors, you will be sad when facing woses/trolls/heavy infantry.

4. Units with the quick trait are worth keeping because you may have to fight in caves and the extra move is great.
Strong-Resilient is also great for melee troops.
Once units with the intelligent trait reaches the top level, they become powerful canon fodders.

Ending comment:
In my opinion, units with the loyal trait are as valuable as the leader.
And one should recruit enough canon fodder units to protect them.
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revolushn
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Re: recruit, recall, dismiss

Post by revolushn » May 2nd, 2008, 12:34 am

feel free to disagree with my strategy... But i recall everyone. EVERYONE. Not necessarily as the first units i hire, sometimes i will recruit some level ones to take the brunt of attacks, but if they survive they will definitely be recalled at some point. Actually if they hadnt engaged in combat i wouldnt recall them - i would just dismiss them (unless they were horsemen or something that cost less than recruiting).

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Re: recruit, recall, dismiss

Post by Trau » May 2nd, 2008, 5:21 am

I always recall my loyal units, since they are often few in number anyways and they don't cost any money to keep on the field.

Then I always recall my units with Leadership, illuminate, healing, or anything else that can benefit other units since they are important for leveling my fresh recruits.

After that, I recall units that seem useful on the map and fill the rest of my ranks with fresh recruits that seem useful on the map.

I usually dismiss units that I don't foresee being useful (bad traits) and aren't close to levelling and, of course, only when they cost 19 or less gold to recruit.

As for how many units to recruit... ehhh... I find it kind of a crapshoot, frankly. Try it once and if at first you don't succeed, try try again? :hmm:

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Re: recruit, recall, dismiss

Post by megane » May 2nd, 2008, 10:12 am

I used to recall all my old units, but found my army was much more effective and fun to use if I recalled only a few higher-level units whose abilities are helpful to the "younger generation"; units with leadership or healing are obvious choices, but Elvish Heroes, for example, are also useful for beating on stuff in order to give the newbies some kills. Essentially, by using primarily lv1 troops, I not only reduce costs, but also enjoy far more often the immense benefits associated with having one's units level up on the field. Remember that experience is a resource as much as gold is, and letting your Royal Guard kill the enemy Warlord is just as wasteful as recruiting a bunch of units you never use.
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Re:

Post by Dave » May 2nd, 2008, 5:13 pm

turin wrote:4. I never dismiss units unless the gold saved recruiting a new one would be over six or seven. Mainly because you never know when the campaign author will stop you from being able to recruit that kind of unit.
Personally I would generally call this poor campaign design. :)

Unless something is done to the units in the recall list of that type, I don't think cutting off previously available recruitment options is a very good idea. It seems arbitrary and too difficult for the player to predict. Especially if it's something like "okay so now you must fight in this big lake, oh and yeah, you can't recruit mermen. Better hope you have some in your recall list, hmmm?"

The only real exception imo is if it's incredibly unlikely recruiting such a unit would be useful anyhow. (e.g. there are no more water scenarios in the campaign and you can no longer recruit mermen).

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Re: Re:

Post by Devrailis Colandore » May 2nd, 2008, 7:41 pm

Dave wrote:
turin wrote:4. I never dismiss units unless the gold saved recruiting a new one would be over six or seven. Mainly because you never know when the campaign author will stop you from being able to recruit that kind of unit.
Personally I would generally call this poor campaign design. :)

Unless something is done to the units in the recall list of that type, I don't think cutting off previously available recruitment options is a very good idea. It seems arbitrary and too difficult for the player to predict. Especially if it's something like "okay so now you must fight in this big lake, oh and yeah, you can't recruit mermen. Better hope you have some in your recall list, hmmm?"

The only real exception imo is if it's incredibly unlikely recruiting such a unit would be useful anyhow. (e.g. there are no more water scenarios in the campaign and you can no longer recruit mermen).

David
Stopping a player from being able to recruit units for the sake of screwing around with them is definitely annoying, but I don't see any problems with changing a player's recruitment list if it is communicated to the player within the story well in advance. For example, you can write a scenario with dialogue telling the player that they should be careful with their units and what they recruit because they might not get the chance to recruit in the next scenario, this allows the player to play around a restriction and prepare a strategy for it. The player's goal would be to plan more carefully and not be wasteful of unit deaths. Your example with the mermen, is a good example of a bad restriction that causes frustration without benefit. If for example, there was a preceding scenario where you could recruit mermen and were told to save some for the next round, then the situation might be a bit different.

EDIT: Also, if anyone were to change the restriction list, it would be a good idea to always have a good and plausible plot-related reason for the change. Doing it for no particuarly reason is again, really annoying. And like any device, it should be used in moderation, changing units around in the recruitment list scenario after scenario would make the campaign feel rather odd as well - by change, I mean swapping units in and out, adding units in periodically is in my opinion, fine.

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