Siege of Elensefar

Share and discuss strategies for playing the game, and get help and tips from other players.

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Kirdan
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Joined: October 25th, 2004, 11:44 am

Post by Kirdan » January 6th, 2005, 9:39 am

Jahannan wrote:They don't really care about Konrad, and if you think you can get away with sending him off to the Northwest, you're probably wrong.
It's not that simple. You have to send him towards the NE not to stay there, but to lure the Orch Army to go through the forest. and stay away from your starting keep.
Attachments
The_Siege_of_Elensefar_replay.gz
Relplay in which I'm wrong.
Recorded with 0.8.5, plays on 0.8.7
(15.6 KiB) Downloaded 210 times

Jussi
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Location: Finland

Post by Jussi » January 6th, 2005, 9:42 am

Hi,

I have tried two strategies in Elensefar on hard.

I sent mounted units south to kill the necromancer. Two knights seems to be the best units for the job. They have better chances to kill the necromancer than two horsemen and they usually survive.

In the North I went to forest with an elvish army and defended it against the orcish assault at night. The strategy usually brought me some advanced elves but I usually lost some too. I was also in trouble if I couldn't kill the orc before undeads arrived because elves can't fight them on open.

I had better results when I changed elves to knights and mages. I sent two rangers through the forest west. Then I waited nearby my castle till orcs attacked. It took them usually whole night to reach the castle. So they were standing on grass next to my knigths at dawn :twisted: . Then I killed the orcs and waited undeads' arrival. I killed them next day and finally killed orc. I moved my rangers from west and mages from east. I used a line of knights to protect my mages when they were grouping near the orc castle. I lost two thieves and rogue but managed to get many red mages and at least one paladin.

Yours, Jussi

Jahannan
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Joined: January 5th, 2005, 4:00 am

Post by Jahannan » January 7th, 2005, 3:27 am

I have yet to try emulating what you did, but from what I could tell, there seemed to be a LOT of luck involved in that (not to mention 2nd/3rd level units... I did well in the levels beforehand, and managed to get a few levelled characters from the first two levels despite my allies constantly stealing kills, but I have no idea how having characters that powerful that early is even possible.) I understand how the horseman rushes work best now though. I'm probably going to give up on elves, they've yet to give me anything but trouble, and I kinda prefer the idea of rushing with the knights when the enemy comes up to the castle at dawn.

That said, any chance of a series of replays showing how you got characters like that? It'd be nice to finally figure out how to have an army with more than a light sprinkling of 2nd level characters.

Kirdan
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Joined: October 25th, 2004, 11:44 am

Post by Kirdan » January 7th, 2005, 9:57 am

Jahannan wrote:That said, any chance of a series of replays showing how you got characters like that? It'd be nice to finally figure out how to have an army with more than a light sprinkling of 2nd level characters.
Do you mean me? or Jussi?

I admit there was some luck involved in the last turn. But that was only because it startet unlucky with the Shaman not making an obvious kill. I was also unlucky with the horsemen, not really hitting anything. With just a little bit of luck you can do the rush with 2 horsemen... I had 3 ... fortunately.

Shade
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I've started a

Post by Shade » January 7th, 2005, 7:09 pm

I've started a big reworking of this level before I left... I'm going through HttT from start to end playing, cleaning WML, and touching up maps. After I get this done I'm going on a balancing & make it cool pass. Since this level seems to the source of a certain level of hatred, and the map is being heavily operated on, I might take a bit of a look at balance right now.
Note to forum users: You are in a maze of twisty little passages

Jahannan
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Post by Jahannan » January 8th, 2005, 3:06 am

I mean you, Kirdan. I think I should really play through all the levels before the Siege of Elensefar before attempting it again, and being able to see how someone else was able to do it (and achieve such high-level characters) would be quite the boon to my attempts.

Kirdan
Posts: 104
Joined: October 25th, 2004, 11:44 am

Post by Kirdan » January 8th, 2005, 2:27 pm

Jahannan wrote:I mean you, Kirdan. I think I should really play through all the levels before the Siege of Elensefar before attempting it again,
That's probably a good idead. HttT was my first campaign and I had to start over 3 times before I found out how to optimize XP and $$ so I could complete SoE and Crossroads. You have to plan for this from the very beginning (for example by being sure to level a Shaman).

Here's the replays... I think this is the correct series of replays. (else tell me) ... I've included the next scenario (Crossroads), which you probably will be interested in. ... it doesn't seem to play on 0.8.7 though. (all recorded with 0.8.5).
Attachments
goingtoelensefar.tar.gz
HttT 1-7 replays, medium level. recorded with 0.8.5
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Jussi
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Location: Finland

Post by Jussi » January 9th, 2005, 8:55 am

Hi,

I lost my replays while changed my linux distribution, but I can give some tips for earlier levels.

1. Elves besieged

You can use Delfador to soften trolls. A resilien troll won't die but is hopefully get a couple of xps left. Then you can kill it easily with your elf. If you are playing hard you can attack any troll because you don't have to save xps. I once managed to get 5 level 2 elves mostly this way. You have to protect Delfador if you try this. Multiple attacs by orcs and trolls are can kill him.

2. Blackwater port

If you use waiting strategy (wait till orcs have come to open north of the hills) you can get extra xps if you sent haldiel and three horsemen to north of the hills as quick as you can. You can then attack over the hills at afternoon. Attack so that orcs can't surround your horsemen. Then run away. The problem with waiting strategy is that you have to watch orcs killing allied knights at night :cry: , but otherwise it works well.

It would be a good idea to recruit or recall a shaman because she can help horsemen and grap a few xps.

3. Isle of Anduin

Getting an elvish rider will speed up your march in next level. I usually try this at western side saving eastern kills for Konrad or other elvish units.

4. Bay of Pearls

It took me very long to save my land army from destruction in this level. I actually once played this level so that there was a levelled troll at my keep next to Konrad at the same time my mermen finished land leader.

The most important tip is that you should in first two pairs of units you can recruit one is an elf. Then the land orc will recruit trolls and archers and you will get a nice levelling scenario for your knights and horsemen. If you recruit multiple horsemen or mages in first two rounds land orc will recruit orcish warriors and you are happy if any of your land units survive.

Jussi

Kirdan
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Joined: October 25th, 2004, 11:44 am

Post by Kirdan » January 9th, 2005, 12:38 pm

Jussi wrote:The most important tip is that you should in first two pairs of units you can recruit one is an elf. Then the land orc will recruit trolls and archers and you will get a nice levelling scenario for your knights and horsemen. If you recruit multiple horsemen or mages in first two rounds land orc will recruit orcish warriors and you are happy if any of your land units survive.
Interesting. I didn't know you could control Orch recruting like that. I didn't find it hard to survive though. I had no problem making a stable defensive position behind the water at the keep with a few healing units. Some times it's even work making a defence line at the two first villages on the other side.
I spend quite some time at this level to finally kill the land Orch. You have to do it with mermen. A few times I was lucky to get my land army down south, but there was always some stupid troll blocking for the final kill with ZOC.

scott
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Post by scott » January 9th, 2005, 1:13 pm

Here is a replay on medium 0.8.8 and no saveloading
I think I was lucky because he attacked with some of his guys but pulled the rest back until I was ready for them. Then they got stuck during daytime. I had so many upper level units from the Bay of Pearls. I recruited for 7 turns and just spent time killing green, letting the mermen kill blue.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.

Jussi
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Location: Finland

Post by Jussi » January 10th, 2005, 12:30 pm

Kirdan wrote:
Jussi wrote:The most important tip is that you should in first two pairs of units you can recruit one is an elf. Then the land orc will recruit trolls and archers and you will get a nice levelling scenario for your knights and horsemen. If you recruit multiple horsemen or mages in first two rounds land orc will recruit orcish warriors and you are happy if any of your land units survive.
Interesting. I didn't know you could control Orch recruting like that. I didn't find it hard to survive though. I had no problem making a stable defensive position behind the water at the keep with a few healing units. Some times it's even work making a defence line at the two first villages on the other side.
I spend quite some time at this level to finally kill the land Orch. You have to do it with mermen. A few times I was lucky to get my land army down south, but there was always some stupid troll blocking for the final kill with ZOC.
I found it out because I tried to speed crossing with lancers. A quick lancer can go to water on the opposite side of the island and leave the island for a horseman. So I was usually fighting against an army of orcish warriors and was beaten. I first find out that the orc hired more trolls and archers if I sent an elf instead of a mage in the second pair. Then I played Anduin again to get an elvish rider. It really paid off.

Jussi

barefootguru
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Re: I've started a

Post by barefootguru » January 6th, 2006, 11:09 pm

Shade wrote:I've started a big reworking of this level before I left... I'm going through HttT from start to end playing, cleaning WML, and touching up maps. After I get this done I'm going on a balancing & make it cool pass. Since this level seems to the source of a certain level of hatred, and the map is being heavily operated on, I might take a bit of a look at balance right now.
Great to hear!

The first time through I had about 6 goes at this scenario, before restarting the campaign and trying to level some more guys up.

The second time through I only just made it on about attempt 5: about 4 level 2 guys and 300 gold.

The main problems seem to be you have to wipe out the orcs fast before they start breeding and the skeletons back them up. But even then there's no time to recuperate--the skellies arrive during the end of the battle.

I eventually did it by recruiting 2 waves of horsemen, wiping out most of the orcs with them (and most of the horsemen), then following up recalling what archers and healers I could afford.

I got the thieves to help take over villages (starve the orcs, feed me), and they kindly volunteered as canon fodder to hold off the skellies for a turn or two.

I then had to rush Konrad into the orcs camp to recruit more mages, by which time the skeletons had already started attacking.

After that it wasn't too bad! I managed to level a number of units up plus hoard a reasonable amount of gold.

Vilan
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Joined: January 5th, 2006, 8:25 am

Post by Vilan » January 7th, 2006, 8:20 am

A couple suggestions I haven't seen mentioned yet... if you tell the thieves to support you when you invade the city, you may be able to surround the orc leader with thieves and backstab him to death. It doesn't always work, but thieves are hard to hit in a castle. Just make sure there's not too many nearby orcs that can bother them while they do that.

Also for the necro, if you move your troops in the main entrance he'll summon up extra skeletons to wear you down, but if you sneak in the side entrance he won't do that. Takes extra time but it helps if you're running out of guys.

Tmoiy
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Re: I've started a

Post by Tmoiy » January 8th, 2006, 9:23 am

barefootguru wrote:
Shade wrote:I've started a big reworking of this level before I left... I'm going through HttT from start to end playing, cleaning WML, and touching up maps. After I get this done I'm going on a balancing & make it cool pass. Since this level seems to the source of a certain level of hatred, and the map is being heavily operated on, I might take a bit of a look at balance right now. Great to hear!
Why are you resurrecting a year-old thread to congratulate long-completed balancing?

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Thrawn
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Post by Thrawn » January 8th, 2006, 5:35 pm

I love this level. What I do is get mermen out (to into the water) and horsemen on the first turn. Then I get quicker elvish fighter type units, with mages behind. Then I go throught the rest of my recall list, within reason. I get the fighter units in those two castle squares, send mages behind (Shamans included) then I send one horseman to get villages, and the rest go up the right side of the screen. Wait for theives, and make them attack after I flag. By this time, most units have moved out of orc's keep, and attacking fighter. Kill off as many units as possible with mages, and flag a village--making thieves appear, and use rouge to move around hero, thieves to take up backstabbing position, and kill the leader.

I have never had problem with undead. Just heal during night while they arrive, sent mages to pick the off--they usually are sparce groups, and make a line with fighters to protect mages during enemies turn. Trigger the trap in his keep, send some units at both sides, kill units and then kill the boss.
...please remember that "IT'S" ALWAYS MEANS "IT IS" and "ITS" IS WHAT YOU USE TO INDICATE POSSESSION BY "IT".--scott

this goes for they're/their/there as well

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