First post, Newbishness, and drakes

Share and discuss strategies for playing the game, and get help and tips from other players.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Carzal
Posts: 11
Joined: December 5th, 2007, 8:57 pm

First post, Newbishness, and drakes

Post by Carzal » December 5th, 2007, 9:02 pm

Hello everyone,
I've recently begun playing Wesnoth and, like most newbs, am playing with the rebels. I'm wondering if anyone can direct me towards somewhere where I can find some good strats for rebels.
More importantly, how the hell do you beat drakes? I was told that they were stacked, but I read the overpowered sticky-post which has some convincing arguments that the factions are similar. So far, drakes have slaughtered me no matter how I play. Now... this might just be me sucking. Highly possible. But they do seem rather strong, even if it's easy to hit them. They have good health, decent attack and so many resistances, except to cold.
How do I beat them?


P.S. Also, whats the deal with the extended era? Does it limit who you can play with?

User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Post by thespaceinvader » December 5th, 2007, 9:07 pm

Pointy things, arcane and cold. Basically. Only attack at night - they get a massive boost out of daytime.

EE is a usermade set of multiplayer factions. You can't play a game against someone using one of those factions unless they also have the EE. It doesn't affect matters if you both use default factions, whether you have the EE installed or not.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.

User avatar
zookeeper
WML Wizard
Posts: 9740
Joined: September 11th, 2004, 10:40 pm
Location: Finland

Re: First post, Newbishness, and drakes

Post by zookeeper » December 5th, 2007, 9:10 pm

Carzal wrote:They have good health, decent attack and so many resistances, except to cold.
And to pierce. Which happens to be what your archers are good at inflicting. Drakes also have bad defense. You can get 60% or 70% for most units, whereas drakes usually just get 30% or 40%. Of course saurians are rather different. And yes, avoid combat during the day.
Carzal wrote:P.S. Also, whats the deal with the extended era? Does it limit who you can play with?
If you host an EE game, then only people who have downloaded EE can join and play.

Carzal
Posts: 11
Joined: December 5th, 2007, 8:57 pm

Post by Carzal » December 5th, 2007, 9:22 pm

last game I tried recruiting basically only shamans and archers, with my hero being the sorceress. I think that the day-night advantage is where I'm losing out on, since I only pay marginal attention to it (oops..).
Does that make sense? Power it up to the max with archers and shamans, ignoring mages and woses (of course) but even not using fighters? I'm still trying to figure out the right balance.

User avatar
Temuchin Khan
Posts: 1715
Joined: September 3rd, 2004, 6:35 pm
Location: Player 6 on the original Agaia map

Post by Temuchin Khan » December 5th, 2007, 9:50 pm

thespaceinvader wrote:It doesn't affect matters if you both use default factions, whether you have the EE installed or not.
Really? If I remember rightly, EE has made changes even to the Default factions, except for the Drakes.

User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Post by thespaceinvader » December 5th, 2007, 9:52 pm

If you both (or however many there are) choose to use default era, it makes no difference.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.

User avatar
Noyga
Inactive Developer
Posts: 1790
Joined: September 26th, 2005, 5:56 pm
Location: France

Post by Noyga » December 5th, 2007, 10:00 pm

Temuchin Khan wrote:
thespaceinvader wrote:It doesn't affect matters if you both use default factions, whether you have the EE installed or not.
Really? If I remember rightly, EE has made changes even to the Default factions, except for the Drakes.
Actually there is two changes for the Drake faction in EE :
- The Glider line have a different movetype (but this is only in the version for 1.3.x) (more defense, but poorer physical resistances)
- Inferno Drakes can level into an Armageddon Drake
"Ooh, man, my mage had a 30% chance to miss, but he still managed to hit! Awesome!" ;) -- xtifr

Velensk
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 3984
Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Post by Velensk » December 5th, 2007, 10:08 pm

If you provide some replay's then that says allot more than trying to explain what you do. Provide a replay of a game you play against a drake enemy and we can critique your playing style.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

Flametrooper
Posts: 984
Joined: February 21st, 2006, 11:02 pm
Location: 0x466C616D65

Post by Flametrooper » December 5th, 2007, 10:19 pm

Carzal wrote:Power it up to the max with archers and shamans, ignoring mages and woses (of course) but even not using fighters? I'm still trying to figure out the right balance.
Archers and shamans (assuming you're playing Rebel here) are weak in meele, and have low HP. Drakes are mostly strong in melee and tend to have high HP. If you "power it up with archers and shamans" you will likely find them torn to pieces. The Elvish Fighter has a ranged pierce attack, better survivability then Archers or Shamans, and is cheap. He's worth recruiting.
Also, the poor, underlooked Elvish Scouts, with their bows and movement, can harry the drakes, steal villages, and generally be of surprising usefulness if used well. Many people thing Elvish Scouts suck. The thing is, many people don't know how to use Elvish Scouts.
And Mages - Drakes resist fire, Drakes have melee that tears them apart, but saurians - they're weak to fire, and Magical negates their biggest asset (high defense). Recruit ONE mage, just one in the entire game, only ever one, keep him alive and protected, and use him to kill saurians. If he levels, make him White.

paris
Posts: 22
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 3:45 pm
Location: Greece

Post by paris » December 5th, 2007, 11:50 pm

also fighters are good against saurians which have negative blade resistance..

Carzal
Posts: 11
Joined: December 5th, 2007, 8:57 pm

Post by Carzal » December 6th, 2007, 3:19 am

So, to summarize, you would suggest a combination of mostly archers for hitting, fighters for taking damage and saurians, one mage for saurians and a shaman or two? With the possibility of involving elvish scouts into the mix (I've found that scouts' usefulness varies widely depending on the map that you are playing, but then again, I'm a newb). Am I getting this right?

Again about EE: do most people use it, or is it more a specialty added on thing. Most of the discussions here appear to be about the basic races.

Thanks,
Carzal.

edit: looking at your names I realized that i've actually played games with some of you. Well, at least one of you (Paris). I guess it's a close-knit community, right?

Frostfire
Posts: 17
Joined: July 31st, 2006, 5:02 am

Post by Frostfire » December 6th, 2007, 5:13 am

Carzal wrote:So, to summarize, you would suggest a combination of mostly archers for hitting, fighters for taking damage and saurians, one mage for saurians and a shaman or two? With the possibility of involving elvish scouts into the mix (I've found that scouts' usefulness varies widely depending on the map that you are playing, but then again, I'm a newb). Am I getting this right?

Again about EE: do most people use it, or is it more a specialty added on thing. Most of the discussions here appear to be about the basic races.

Thanks,
Carzal.

edit: looking at your names I realized that i've actually played games with some of you. Well, at least one of you (Paris). I guess it's a close-knit community, right?
Well whenever I get elves vs drakes, I base my number of fighters and archers on what units they have. If I see a lot of burners and fighters I'll go 60:40 archers to fighters maybe even 70:30. If I'm seeing more clashers and saurians I'll flip that ratio and grab a mage. Woses are obviously a no-go sadly (I love them too much) and scouts should really only be part of the initial recruit for village grabbing. I find that one or two clashers can flat out destroy a scout at day, and the 6-2 (7-2 if dexterous) isn't nearly as good as an archers 5-4 and superior terrain bonus (which is a big part of facing off against drakes, they want to keep you on bad terrain so it's a blow for blow thing, which is bad for non-drakes). The only reason to pick elvish scouts post first turn is for they're ridiculous speed, which drakes can match without trying really. Although I'm sure someone is going to chip in and mention some completely insane reason why scouts are actually amazing against drakes and that theres some oversight that I forgot, that tends to happen to me a lot.

as for extended era, most people who play 'serious' games stay away from it, but that shouldn't stop you from enjoying it if you want.

also the community is rather small so people get to know each other fairly well.

Sombra
Posts: 273
Joined: August 11th, 2006, 6:38 pm

Post by Sombra » December 6th, 2007, 2:12 pm

A wose /mage is nice to kill these pesky saurians if your enemy depends much on them. Shamans tangle the clashers... normals fighters for holdvillageas and kill saurians ... As always in Wesnoth simply depending too much on 1 or 2 units you will be simply taken of the battlefield. DAy and night cycle very importatn depends muhc what your enemy does recruit more saurians or drakes. .. Stay on good terrain. PRess the drakes as they have very bad defenses... Scouts are good to take out the cowardly swounded drakes which try to get away..

Try to engadge the drakes early in the game. There is no faction which is deadlier in attacking if you led them build up their forces they will simply sweep in in one big final strike

User avatar
Cackfiend
Posts: 436
Joined: January 28th, 2007, 7:36 am
Location: Florida, USA
Contact:

Post by Cackfiend » December 6th, 2007, 3:28 pm

id say a majority of archers, a fair amount of fighters, a shaman or two, maybe 1 mage and a scout is usually a must


make sure to save your dextrous archers for their burners and fighters (they do extra damage to these enemies) and use your non-dextrous archers on clashers and saurians (they still do the same damage to these enemies)


this is a very close matchup when both players are good skilled players

elves are best at defending which means you're going to get attacked twice during the day. if it looks really dire for you then back up during the first day rotation (BEFORE they attack) and sacrifice villages if you have to, you can always get them back at night.
"There's no love in fear." - Maynard James Keenan

I'm the guy who's responsible for 40% Gliders in all hexes... I can now die a happy man. =D

PingPangQui
Posts: 267
Joined: July 18th, 2006, 11:52 am

Post by PingPangQui » December 6th, 2007, 3:39 pm

Solaris strategy (he knows what he fears most):

"In order to win against drakes you have to outnumber them. You won't be able to do so when relying heavily on archers. Sure - they have a very good ranged attack and very good defense in forests but they are just incredibly weak regarding hp and as expensive as a drake fighter and there isn't everywhere forest. Don't get more then two of them and protect them as if they were mages (because there are practically your mages via drakes).

Your main force should be fighters (lots of them) and shamans in a 3/1 ratio. A mage is also not bad in case you face an invasion of skirmishers, as already indicated. Make it as difficult as possible for your opponent to attack you at daylight (good unit positioning!).

Playing with shamans can be somewhat tricky - keep them in good defense position but play with them offensively (slow heavy melee units) at the same time. When you attack slow a drake and gang up on him."
The Clan Antagonist.

"Larry the Cow was a bit frustrated at the current state of Linux distributions (...) until he tried Gentoo Linux" - Free Software for free people.

Post Reply